4 ms·

Someone else pointed out LD50 is ~700ppm It's unlikely you'd be exposed to this level for any period of time unless the battery ruptured into the car, underwat

Someone else pointed out LD50 is ~700ppm It's unlikely you'd be exposed to this level for any period of time unless the battery ruptured into the car, underwater, with the windows up, in which case you have bigger problems. You're unlikely to to see 700ppm in an outdoor situation like a car wreck or battery malfunction on the highway during a rainstorm. Atmospheric CO2 is about 450ppm for comparison. Ammonia is a superior refrigerant (widely used in industrial circles, and causes no ozone depletion, is biodegradable, etc) but not used in residential applications because it's highly toxic if there's a catastrophic seal failure and not vented outside, despite the fact that humans are very efficient at smelling even the slightest ammonia leak.

peterdsharpe 3y ago
I think H2S is somewhat bigger of a safety risk than presented here. For example, check out this case where what you describe (battery rupture) happened, killing both occupants from H2S inhalation: https://web.archive.org/web/20161005164308/http://www.wesh.com/news/medical-examiner-confirms-suspected-cause-of-deaths-in-turnpike-mystery/41939954 https://web.archive.org/web/20161005164308/http://www.wesh.c... And this was only from a starter battery, not a battery sized for vehicle locomotion.
- solardev 3y ago
  It's interesting that Porsche put the battery under the driver's seat (in the cabin? unclear). Wonder if that made it more dangerous. Are modern EV batteries also in the passenger area or in their own little armored section...?
  - npunt 3y ago
    It was probably put there for weight distribution as Porsche would be more likely to optimize for that despite the user inconvenience it may cause
    - mdekkers 3y ago
      Possibly for a Carrera, but for a Cayenne? Despite the Porsche brand, that isn’t anywhere close to a sports car. The platform is shared with the Audi Q7 and the VW Touareg. It’s a tractor with nicer seats. The weight of a battery fitting under a driver seat would be similar to a big shopping run, so weight distribution wouldn’t have been a consideration. Manufacturing logistics probably played a bigger role.
  - sandermvanvliet 3y ago
    My Land Rover Defender had the battery under the seat as well. But hey, there are so many holes in the car it’s basically permanently venting…
dleeftink 3y ago
As excited as I am, there are some kinks in the supply chain that may need some extra taking care of [1]. Although this incident involved relatively few electric vehicles on open sea, it would be even more difficult to contain with larger shipments. Modular battery installations and separate fireproof(ed) shipping are options that need to be considered. [1]: https://apnews.com/article/cargo-ship-fire-netherlands-environment-sea-27535db6880a42084458fee8b10c3592 https://apnews.com/article/cargo-ship-fire-netherlands-envir...
npunt 3y ago
Cars are often in tunnels, could be dangerous there? For comparison purposes, note that indoors CO2 will go from 400 -> 1000ppm+ rather quickly if its not ventilated According to this source [1], CO2 went from 400 -> 3000ppm inside a car cabin in 30mins, which is ~86ppm/min just from breathing. I could easily imagine a gas inside a car leaking at a faster rate and reaching 700ppm in a very short period of time. [1]: https://www.co2meter.com/blogs/news/high-carbon-dioxide-co2-levels-indoors https://www.co2meter.com/blogs/news/high-carbon-dioxide-co2-...

peterdsharpe 3y ago

I think H2S is somewhat bigger of a safety risk than presented here. For example, check out this case where what you describe (battery rupture) happened, killing both occupants from H2S inhalation: https://web.archive.org/web/20161005164308/http://www.wesh.com/news/medical-examiner-confirms-suspected-cause-of-deaths-in-turnpike-mystery/41939954 https://web.archive.org/web/20161005164308/http://www.wesh.c... And this was only from a starter battery, not a battery sized for vehicle locomotion.

solardev 3y ago
It's interesting that Porsche put the battery under the driver's seat (in the cabin? unclear). Wonder if that made it more dangerous. Are modern EV batteries also in the passenger area or in their own little armored section...?
- npunt 3y ago
  It was probably put there for weight distribution as Porsche would be more likely to optimize for that despite the user inconvenience it may cause
  - mdekkers 3y ago
    Possibly for a Carrera, but for a Cayenne? Despite the Porsche brand, that isn’t anywhere close to a sports car. The platform is shared with the Audi Q7 and the VW Touareg. It’s a tractor with nicer seats. The weight of a battery fitting under a driver seat would be similar to a big shopping run, so weight distribution wouldn’t have been a consideration. Manufacturing logistics probably played a bigger role.
- sandermvanvliet 3y ago
  My Land Rover Defender had the battery under the seat as well. But hey, there are so many holes in the car it’s basically permanently venting…

dleeftink 3y ago

As excited as I am, there are some kinks in the supply chain that may need some extra taking care of [1]. Although this incident involved relatively few electric vehicles on open sea, it would be even more difficult to contain with larger shipments. Modular battery installations and separate fireproof(ed) shipping are options that need to be considered. [1]: https://apnews.com/article/cargo-ship-fire-netherlands-environment-sea-27535db6880a42084458fee8b10c3592 https://apnews.com/article/cargo-ship-fire-netherlands-envir...

npunt 3y ago

Cars are often in tunnels, could be dangerous there? For comparison purposes, note that indoors CO2 will go from 400 -> 1000ppm+ rather quickly if its not ventilated According to this source [1], CO2 went from 400 -> 3000ppm inside a car cabin in 30mins, which is ~86ppm/min just from breathing. I could easily imagine a gas inside a car leaking at a faster rate and reaching 700ppm in a very short period of time. [1]: https://www.co2meter.com/blogs/news/high-carbon-dioxide-co2-levels-indoors https://www.co2meter.com/blogs/news/high-carbon-dioxide-co2-...