4 ms·

I see it as more of a potentially disruptive innovation. In some ways it is obviously worse, but it is also much cheaper. They might eventually be able to keep

I see it as more of a potentially disruptive innovation. In some ways it is obviously worse, but it is also much cheaper. They might eventually be able to keep most of the cheapness while improving the capacity partway toward large expensive systems. Might end up very competitive in terms of capacity versus cost.

theluketaylor 3y ago
It's only cheaper because it's demonstrably worse in every way. The tunnels are too small for a proper metro, it's incredibly inaccessible, loading and unloading passengers takes forever, and in the event of an issue the safety is abysmal. The expensive part of underground metros is not really the tunnels; stations suck up all the time and budget since they can't be done by TBM and require extensive excavation. This solution doesn't do anything to address the real problem; they need the exact same giant, expensive underground caverns a real metro would need. Montreal just opened the first phase of 67 km of grade separated, fully automated metro that can handle 2-3 minute headways all for a price tag around $7 billion CDN ($5 billion US). The REM can handle 14,000 people per per hour; this Vegas plan can only handle 4500 in a fanciful future with vehicles that don't even exist yet. REM solves real regional transportation issues. This boring company project is just a distraction from real solutions.
- s1artibartfast 3y ago
  We can do a cost comparison using the Montreal rail data. Montreal built 67 km for a price tag of 7 billion. The boring company is building 110 km for a price tag of $0 to the city. If I'm doing my math right, the hyperloop is infinitely cheaper. You can do the same analysis per passenger and you'll get the same result
  - theluketaylor 3y ago
    The boring company could pay Las Vegas billions to install this thing and it would still be a bad deal. They are putting in awful tunnels to ruin (perhaps forever) the prospects of mass transit in what is likely the single lowest-hanging fruit currently available in the US. The tiny tunnels can't support any real sustained people movement, so even if this system does see adoption the capacity limits are so low it won't make any real difference in Las Vegas traffic patterns. Re-constructing or modifying the tunnels into something useful will almost certainly be cost prohibitive or too dangerous to attempt (likely both). Boring company will take the most ideal route a proper system could have used, making a proper metro use either sub-optimal routing or make it so cost prohibitive the project is never approved. If the project goes perfectly to plan Las Vegas gets a weird gadget bahn that can't ever grow beyond a weird curiosity, something they already have in their monorail. If it were in the middle of the desert in no one way then it's fine it doesn't cost the city anything. The fact it will permanently steal incredibly prime routing for a real metro is bordering on theft of a public good.
    - s1artibartfast 3y ago
      Oh dear, not using up a tiny portion of the vast Subterranean space and causing a suboptimal route. This is just concern trolling. If the city ever gets it shit together for a real Subway, they can go 5 meters to the side.

theluketaylor 3y ago

It's only cheaper because it's demonstrably worse in every way. The tunnels are too small for a proper metro, it's incredibly inaccessible, loading and unloading passengers takes forever, and in the event of an issue the safety is abysmal. The expensive part of underground metros is not really the tunnels; stations suck up all the time and budget since they can't be done by TBM and require extensive excavation. This solution doesn't do anything to address the real problem; they need the exact same giant, expensive underground caverns a real metro would need. Montreal just opened the first phase of 67 km of grade separated, fully automated metro that can handle 2-3 minute headways all for a price tag around $7 billion CDN ($5 billion US). The REM can handle 14,000 people per per hour; this Vegas plan can only handle 4500 in a fanciful future with vehicles that don't even exist yet. REM solves real regional transportation issues. This boring company project is just a distraction from real solutions.

s1artibartfast 3y ago
We can do a cost comparison using the Montreal rail data. Montreal built 67 km for a price tag of 7 billion. The boring company is building 110 km for a price tag of $0 to the city. If I'm doing my math right, the hyperloop is infinitely cheaper. You can do the same analysis per passenger and you'll get the same result
- theluketaylor 3y ago
  The boring company could pay Las Vegas billions to install this thing and it would still be a bad deal. They are putting in awful tunnels to ruin (perhaps forever) the prospects of mass transit in what is likely the single lowest-hanging fruit currently available in the US. The tiny tunnels can't support any real sustained people movement, so even if this system does see adoption the capacity limits are so low it won't make any real difference in Las Vegas traffic patterns. Re-constructing or modifying the tunnels into something useful will almost certainly be cost prohibitive or too dangerous to attempt (likely both). Boring company will take the most ideal route a proper system could have used, making a proper metro use either sub-optimal routing or make it so cost prohibitive the project is never approved. If the project goes perfectly to plan Las Vegas gets a weird gadget bahn that can't ever grow beyond a weird curiosity, something they already have in their monorail. If it were in the middle of the desert in no one way then it's fine it doesn't cost the city anything. The fact it will permanently steal incredibly prime routing for a real metro is bordering on theft of a public good.
  - s1artibartfast 3y ago
    Oh dear, not using up a tiny portion of the vast Subterranean space and causing a suboptimal route. This is just concern trolling. If the city ever gets it shit together for a real Subway, they can go 5 meters to the side.