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My understanding is that the vendor installs keys in the TPM which can't be retrieved. So no, a virtual TPM wouldn't work, because you don't have the vendor's k
by wzdd 3y ago
My understanding is that the vendor installs keys in the TPM which can't be retrieved. So no, a virtual TPM wouldn't work, because you don't have the vendor's keys. Or rather, you would be in the same situation as before, because you can install your own keys and then have the challenge of getting third parties to trust you.
- metalcrow 3y agoThey'd have to install them before you even get the parts then, right? Otherwise they'll just install them on your virtual tpm. I know apple does that because they own their own chip fabs and have limited (relatively) production runs, but i don't think google is going to manually etch a unique (and it has to be unique otherwise it'll leak) private key into the silicon of every single tpm for mobile and desktop ever. Or are they planning to only allow you to access websites on Google made hardware, and cut out 90% of the world's population?
- wzdd 3y agoCorrect, this is what they do. Google requires hardware manufacturers who want to use Play etc to get their stuff signed with their root certificate, which the TPM then verifies. See https://developer.android.com/training/articles/security-key-attestation https://developer.android.com/training/articles/security-key... In particular: """ If the root certificate doesn't contain the public key on this page, there are two likely reasons: [It is from an old version of Android, or] The other likely reason is that the device isn't a Google Play device. In that case, the device maker is free to create their own root and to make whatever claims they like about what the attestation means. Refer to the device maker's documentation. Note that as of this writing Google isn't aware of any device makers who have done this. """ In other words, to get into the Google attestation party you have to get your device Google Play certified. Obviously device manufacturers are strongly incentivised to do this. Edit: If this were to be applied to desktops as well, the obvious approach would be to partner with Microsoft and make use of their trust root, because Microsoft's keys are installed in ~every TPM.
- metalcrow 3y agoAhhh, ok that makes sense, they're in effect replicating Apple's method then. That does mean this can't really work on desktops atm, due to the low amount of pre-signed TPMs there, so this API is only actually unbreakable for Google and Apple hardware owned mobile devices. Which is already pretty bad, and allows them to boil the frog on desktops! Thank you for the explanation! Edit: I wasn't aware Microsoft was already pre-signing basically all desktop TPMs, that's crazy. Makes sense thinking about it now, especially with Windows 11 requiring it.
- wzdd 3y agoYeah! I agree Apple is the "pioneer" here..