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There’s always a “you don’t know what you haven’t experienced” element to this kind of thing. A lot of my YouTube recommendations at the moment have been ‘cultu

There’s always a “you don’t know what you haven’t experienced” element to this kind of thing. A lot of my YouTube recommendations at the moment have been ‘culture shock’ things from Americans (weird because I’m not American or European myself, but I do find it interesting so the algorithm works I guess!) who have gone to live in the UK or Europe for a bit and talk about how amazed they are at living in European cities and how they just had no concept of the way of life until they came over. But even in much smaller ways you can get that mind shift. I didn’t really think about active transport until I thought electric scooters looked fun and ordered one, and it just blew my mind and opened up a whole new perspective (now I want an e-bike too, but using the scooter heaps). I guess another aspect is that if you were looking at a lot of the cities and public transport that the US has, I guess I might even choose the ‘burbs and car culture over that… That’s a tricky thing to overcome, getting public transport especially in the US up to a reasonable international standard.

mindcrime 3y ago
I will say this: IF you're going to live in a "big city" it's definitely nice to pick one with good public transit. I spent quite a lot of time in Chicago a few years ago, and I was really surprised at how accessible things were without a car, compared to where I live. Like I said in my other comment, I have a lot of stuff within walking distance of me. But what I didn't say, is that for everything else getting there without a car would be a nightmare. We have some buses, and that's about it. Chicago, OTOH, with the L-train system and the comprehensive bus route coverage, is relatively easy to get around, despite its size.
GiorgioG 3y ago
I'm an American. My parents are 1st generation immigrants. I spent a lot of time in Europe visiting grandparents growing up. I don't think one way of living is better than another, just personal preferences. I enjoyed my visits to Europe, but for my own life I prefer living in the US. Public transport in the US just isn't a priority and never will be outside of large cities. Scooters and eBikes are great in cities, but awful for suburbs. I wouldn't risk riding one outside my neighborhood on the larger/faster roads.
- edhelas 3y ago
  That was the goal indeed. It's by design.
- drewcoo 3y ago
  > US. Public transport in the US just isn't a priority and never will be outside of large cities Actually, about a century ago there was better public transportation, both municipal and long-distance, serving even small-ish towns. Yes, most people then lived on farms, but farms were usually close to a small town. Since then the auto industry has managed to change laws to make it more or less illegal to be killed by a car and get funding for things like paved roads. Same country, but it looks very different today. If it seems like it was always that way, it's because the auto industry's marketers were so good at their jobs.
  - sershe 3y ago
    Auto industry? People on HN really like to blame industry for everything. While I fully 100% support car-centric development and I think we just need to fix emissions like we fixed pollution, technologically - via massive renewables/nuclear build-out and electric cars - and really dislike governments, I have to give credit where it's due. The car-centric development was all its fault (or was all to its credit). Businesses were building rail lines between cities, and tram lines in the cities around which the new neighborhoods developed (even in smaller cities, like Seattle). Then, the government built the highway system (and instituted zoning laws, for less-palatable reasons). Railroads are now marginal for passenger transport and tram lines have gone out of business. Woops!
xwdv 3y ago
If you’ve only lived in small tiny spaces then you don't know what you’re really missing. Big houses means big hobbies: you’re not gonna fire up a tablesaw on your tiny balcony, probably not gonna install a lift in your one car garage to do your own mechanical automotive work. Probably not going to throw big parties of 20+ people firing up a grill in the yard and sitting around a fire pit drinking beers and having conversation while kids jump in a pool. Probably not going to build a model train town in a spare bedroom.
- mindcrime 3y ago
  Yep. My dad has a lift in his shop back home, and I could always take my stuff over there to do auto work. Or if I didn't need a lift, at our place we had a big shed with a concrete floor, well lit, shop air compressor, etc. The downside was that it wasn't fully enclosed so it wasn't great in cold weather. Anyway, that may be the single biggest thing I miss about "back home". Where I live now, I can't even (officially) change the oil in my car or replace a set of brake pads without violating a rule of the place where I live. I swapped out an alternator a few weeks ago and managed not to get yelled at by the management people, but that's about as extensive as you can go here, either due to lack of amenities/equipment, or "the rules". Aaarggghh.
- balfirevic 3y ago
  Also loud hobbies, like music with real acoustic drums.
tivert 3y ago
> There’s always a “you don’t know what you haven’t experienced” element to this kind of thing. A lot of my YouTube recommendations at the moment have been ‘culture shock’ things from Americans (weird because I’m not American or European myself, but I do find it interesting so the algorithm works I guess!) who have gone to live in the UK or Europe for a bit and talk about how amazed they are at living in European cities and how they just had no concept of the way of life until they came over. Not really. It's personal preference, not ignorance. As a counter-anecdote: I know many people who moved to US suburbs from dense, walkable places; and they wouldn't want to go back. They like having a big house with a yard, and that's just not a realistic option where they're from.
- digging 3y ago
  The primary issue is that big houses and card-dependence aren't mutually exclusive in nature, only in law. We could quite literally have everything we wanted, if "we" refers to people living in communities instead of car manufacturers and dealers.
glimshe 3y ago
A lot more Europeans move to the US than the other way around. It's not surprising that the Americans who prefer the European lifestyle move to Europe and are happy with their lifestyle.

mindcrime 3y ago

I will say this: IF you're going to live in a "big city" it's definitely nice to pick one with good public transit. I spent quite a lot of time in Chicago a few years ago, and I was really surprised at how accessible things were without a car, compared to where I live. Like I said in my other comment, I have a lot of stuff within walking distance of me. But what I didn't say, is that for everything else getting there without a car would be a nightmare. We have some buses, and that's about it. Chicago, OTOH, with the L-train system and the comprehensive bus route coverage, is relatively easy to get around, despite its size.

GiorgioG 3y ago

I'm an American. My parents are 1st generation immigrants. I spent a lot of time in Europe visiting grandparents growing up. I don't think one way of living is better than another, just personal preferences. I enjoyed my visits to Europe, but for my own life I prefer living in the US. Public transport in the US just isn't a priority and never will be outside of large cities. Scooters and eBikes are great in cities, but awful for suburbs. I wouldn't risk riding one outside my neighborhood on the larger/faster roads.

edhelas 3y ago
That was the goal indeed. It's by design.
drewcoo 3y ago
> US. Public transport in the US just isn't a priority and never will be outside of large cities Actually, about a century ago there was better public transportation, both municipal and long-distance, serving even small-ish towns. Yes, most people then lived on farms, but farms were usually close to a small town. Since then the auto industry has managed to change laws to make it more or less illegal to be killed by a car and get funding for things like paved roads. Same country, but it looks very different today. If it seems like it was always that way, it's because the auto industry's marketers were so good at their jobs.
- sershe 3y ago
  Auto industry? People on HN really like to blame industry for everything. While I fully 100% support car-centric development and I think we just need to fix emissions like we fixed pollution, technologically - via massive renewables/nuclear build-out and electric cars - and really dislike governments, I have to give credit where it's due. The car-centric development was all its fault (or was all to its credit). Businesses were building rail lines between cities, and tram lines in the cities around which the new neighborhoods developed (even in smaller cities, like Seattle). Then, the government built the highway system (and instituted zoning laws, for less-palatable reasons). Railroads are now marginal for passenger transport and tram lines have gone out of business. Woops!

xwdv 3y ago

If you’ve only lived in small tiny spaces then you don't know what you’re really missing. Big houses means big hobbies: you’re not gonna fire up a tablesaw on your tiny balcony, probably not gonna install a lift in your one car garage to do your own mechanical automotive work. Probably not going to throw big parties of 20+ people firing up a grill in the yard and sitting around a fire pit drinking beers and having conversation while kids jump in a pool. Probably not going to build a model train town in a spare bedroom.

mindcrime 3y ago
Yep. My dad has a lift in his shop back home, and I could always take my stuff over there to do auto work. Or if I didn't need a lift, at our place we had a big shed with a concrete floor, well lit, shop air compressor, etc. The downside was that it wasn't fully enclosed so it wasn't great in cold weather. Anyway, that may be the single biggest thing I miss about "back home". Where I live now, I can't even (officially) change the oil in my car or replace a set of brake pads without violating a rule of the place where I live. I swapped out an alternator a few weeks ago and managed not to get yelled at by the management people, but that's about as extensive as you can go here, either due to lack of amenities/equipment, or "the rules". Aaarggghh.
balfirevic 3y ago
Also loud hobbies, like music with real acoustic drums.

tivert 3y ago

> There’s always a “you don’t know what you haven’t experienced” element to this kind of thing. A lot of my YouTube recommendations at the moment have been ‘culture shock’ things from Americans (weird because I’m not American or European myself, but I do find it interesting so the algorithm works I guess!) who have gone to live in the UK or Europe for a bit and talk about how amazed they are at living in European cities and how they just had no concept of the way of life until they came over. Not really. It's personal preference, not ignorance. As a counter-anecdote: I know many people who moved to US suburbs from dense, walkable places; and they wouldn't want to go back. They like having a big house with a yard, and that's just not a realistic option where they're from.

digging 3y ago
The primary issue is that big houses and card-dependence aren't mutually exclusive in nature, only in law. We could quite literally have everything we wanted, if "we" refers to people living in communities instead of car manufacturers and dealers.

glimshe 3y ago

A lot more Europeans move to the US than the other way around. It's not surprising that the Americans who prefer the European lifestyle move to Europe and are happy with their lifestyle.