3 ms·

My take is, IF I'm going to live in a city anyway (as I currently do) then I'd like to have as many things as possible within walking distance. And in point of

My take is, IF I'm going to live in a city anyway (as I currently do) then I'd like to have as many things as possible within walking distance. And in point of fact, I can walk to the grocery store, many restaurants, another grocery store, a hardware store, my insurance agent, my dentist, etc. And I can easily bicycle to my doctor's office. So yeah, that's nice. And living in an apartment is part of that current setup, which is acceptable, but a bit stifling. In particular, I'm running out of room for all of my books. BUT... all things being equal, I'd rather NOT live in a city environment to begin with. I would actually prefer to live on a large enough plot of land, with enough trees surrounding me, to where I can't see another house without making some effort (eg, walking out to the edge of the road). Ideally I should be able to walk around naked outside my house with zero risk of anybody calling the cops. Because I like to walk around naked? NO. It's just the principle of the thing. And more to the point, I should be able to start a big bonfire in my yard, play loud heavy metal, and have a dozen or more people over, drinking and partying, and not have to worry about bothering my neighbors and having the cops called. The size of the house doesn't actually matter a whole lot, but I would like a fair amount more space than I currently have in my apartment. Anyway... I moved from the latter environment to the former for career reasons, but I strongly desire to eventually move back to latter - at least part time.

falcolas 3y ago
I've made this move back, and it was great for my mental health. I work from home and like having the ability to live out of my house, instead of a city (i.e. leaving the house for various daily activities because the house isn't big enough to support them). And when I want that city environment experience, I can go there.
- ryandrake 3y ago
  You’ve pointed out something key: some people have the mindset of “I live in my home” and others say “I live in my city.” I can see if you are young and have a city job and love restaurants and night clubs and museums and all these other city amenities, then you consider your life to be in various spots in a city. I don’t give a shit about any of that. My life is my family and my dog and my in-home hobbies and working on my vehicle: all of which goes on in my house. I could (and have many times) gone weeks without even leaving my property. No one way is correct.
unshavedyak 3y ago
I'm pretty similar, my wife and I have been looking for 5-10acres for the same reason. I will say tho, while i prefer smaller homes (less room for stuff), these days i massively value two offices and tons of storage. I don't want stuff, but buying a home (i'm in my first) led me to realize all the practical stuff you accumulate. Organization of it is challenging. Doubly so if you're super space constrained.
- falcolas 3y ago
  > Organization of it is challenging. Doubly so if you're super space constrained. And when you're space constrained, just allocating a room to one purpose - such as recreation or hobbies - is super hard. Every space is shared with the whole family.
- mindcrime 3y ago
  Yep. One reason I want to get back to more of a "country" setting is because some of my hobbies involve needing a lot of space, that I don't currently have. Specifically I want a shop for working on cars, working on bicycles, doing metal working and wood working, using a welding machine, cutting torch, band saw, yadda yadda, etc. Things you can't really do in an apartment in the city. And while the local hackerspace is handy, it's still not like having your own shop where you can park a "project car" in there and leave it for long periods of time, swap engines, pull transmissions, etc.
  - mindslight 3y ago
    I've been pondering how much of that is circular though. My interest in metalworking is precisely because I've got some land to maintain. Take away the tractor, and I don't need metalworking. Give me some shared walls, and I don't need to burn wood for heat. Reduce the amounts of biomass and snow that need to be kept at bay, and I don't need a shed full of landscaping equipment. Bury the power lines, and I don't need a generator in case the power goes out. I know some dyed in the wool country lifers are recoiling in horror at my comment, but my point is to be aware of the path dependence, including the path dependence of culture (eg why you want to work on old cars). There's also the circular path dependence of (not) relying on socially shared venues, eg hacker spaces, local markets, etc. The US doesn't have great availability of these things, meaning that people use more space at their personal house to replicate their functionality. Rather than going to a corner market and buying food for a few days, we go to the grocery store every week or two and buy huge quantities. Rather than looking around at hacker spaces to scratch my machining itch, I think how it would be great to find some room for a CNC mill. Most of my garage is currently being taken up because I can't even rely on Home Depot to function as a warehouse that sells non-broken goods on demand. In my estimation the largest unescapable dynamic in the US is that when you're in a city or even a suburb, you're running on the financial treadmill much harder. Which is fine when you're young, rent is comparable to the money you spend on experiences, and you're happy fitting into the corporate societal structure where you can. But when you get tired of running so fast for someone else, want to have a bit more autonomy, perhaps run your own business or other productive endeavor, the main way to do that comfortably is to move to a lower cost of living area where things like office/hobby space comes bundled with your dwelling.
houseatrielah 3y ago
We don't build urban housing for medium/large families. When people have more than 1 child, they're usually off to the 'burbs. Then there's no multi-generational experience in a small neighborhood that you might see in old movies.
hotpotamus 3y ago
The way I think about it is I'd like enough land to fire a .22 pistol without bothering anyone. Would be fun to be able to target shoot in my back yard with a firearm, though I can do that now with airguns.
- mindcrime 3y ago
  I hear ya. I used to have a .45 carbine (basically a cheap, off-brand "Tommy Gun" knock-off, semi-auto only) and "back home" we had space out back where there was a big pit where they had sold fill dirt years before. So we could just go down in the pit and shoot with the sides of the pit as a backstop. And if, FSM forbid, a round made it out of the dirt pit, there was nothing around but miles of woods. Now, if I want to shoot I have to pack my stuff in the car, drive to a range, pay a fee, etc. etc. Doable, but definitely adds some friction to the process.

falcolas 3y ago

I've made this move back, and it was great for my mental health. I work from home and like having the ability to live out of my house, instead of a city (i.e. leaving the house for various daily activities because the house isn't big enough to support them). And when I want that city environment experience, I can go there.

ryandrake 3y ago
You’ve pointed out something key: some people have the mindset of “I live in my home” and others say “I live in my city.” I can see if you are young and have a city job and love restaurants and night clubs and museums and all these other city amenities, then you consider your life to be in various spots in a city. I don’t give a shit about any of that. My life is my family and my dog and my in-home hobbies and working on my vehicle: all of which goes on in my house. I could (and have many times) gone weeks without even leaving my property. No one way is correct.

unshavedyak 3y ago

I'm pretty similar, my wife and I have been looking for 5-10acres for the same reason. I will say tho, while i prefer smaller homes (less room for stuff), these days i massively value two offices and tons of storage. I don't want stuff, but buying a home (i'm in my first) led me to realize all the practical stuff you accumulate. Organization of it is challenging. Doubly so if you're super space constrained.

falcolas 3y ago
> Organization of it is challenging. Doubly so if you're super space constrained. And when you're space constrained, just allocating a room to one purpose - such as recreation or hobbies - is super hard. Every space is shared with the whole family.
mindcrime 3y ago
Yep. One reason I want to get back to more of a "country" setting is because some of my hobbies involve needing a lot of space, that I don't currently have. Specifically I want a shop for working on cars, working on bicycles, doing metal working and wood working, using a welding machine, cutting torch, band saw, yadda yadda, etc. Things you can't really do in an apartment in the city. And while the local hackerspace is handy, it's still not like having your own shop where you can park a "project car" in there and leave it for long periods of time, swap engines, pull transmissions, etc.
- mindslight 3y ago
  I've been pondering how much of that is circular though. My interest in metalworking is precisely because I've got some land to maintain. Take away the tractor, and I don't need metalworking. Give me some shared walls, and I don't need to burn wood for heat. Reduce the amounts of biomass and snow that need to be kept at bay, and I don't need a shed full of landscaping equipment. Bury the power lines, and I don't need a generator in case the power goes out. I know some dyed in the wool country lifers are recoiling in horror at my comment, but my point is to be aware of the path dependence, including the path dependence of culture (eg why you want to work on old cars). There's also the circular path dependence of (not) relying on socially shared venues, eg hacker spaces, local markets, etc. The US doesn't have great availability of these things, meaning that people use more space at their personal house to replicate their functionality. Rather than going to a corner market and buying food for a few days, we go to the grocery store every week or two and buy huge quantities. Rather than looking around at hacker spaces to scratch my machining itch, I think how it would be great to find some room for a CNC mill. Most of my garage is currently being taken up because I can't even rely on Home Depot to function as a warehouse that sells non-broken goods on demand. In my estimation the largest unescapable dynamic in the US is that when you're in a city or even a suburb, you're running on the financial treadmill much harder. Which is fine when you're young, rent is comparable to the money you spend on experiences, and you're happy fitting into the corporate societal structure where you can. But when you get tired of running so fast for someone else, want to have a bit more autonomy, perhaps run your own business or other productive endeavor, the main way to do that comfortably is to move to a lower cost of living area where things like office/hobby space comes bundled with your dwelling.

houseatrielah 3y ago

We don't build urban housing for medium/large families. When people have more than 1 child, they're usually off to the 'burbs. Then there's no multi-generational experience in a small neighborhood that you might see in old movies.

hotpotamus 3y ago

The way I think about it is I'd like enough land to fire a .22 pistol without bothering anyone. Would be fun to be able to target shoot in my back yard with a firearm, though I can do that now with airguns.

mindcrime 3y ago
I hear ya. I used to have a .45 carbine (basically a cheap, off-brand "Tommy Gun" knock-off, semi-auto only) and "back home" we had space out back where there was a big pit where they had sold fill dirt years before. So we could just go down in the pit and shoot with the sides of the pit as a backstop. And if, FSM forbid, a round made it out of the dirt pit, there was nothing around but miles of woods. Now, if I want to shoot I have to pack my stuff in the car, drive to a range, pay a fee, etc. etc. Doable, but definitely adds some friction to the process.