5 ms·

Well, they seem to know what they're doing: pushing a unified, one-size-fits-all interface (and I've tried to honestly use it, on a desktop, for a day; without

Well, they seem to know what they're doing: pushing a unified, one-size-fits-all interface (and I've tried to honestly use it, on a desktop, for a day; without a touch interface, it feels very clumsy). The trouble with one-size-fits-all is obvious: it never does. Note that the linked site is not only "riling up the hivemind," but also proposing solutions to the UX problems as present in the Consumer Preview (because there's nothing else publicly out there to base the suggestions on). That's constructive criticism if I ever saw any - and loyalty to the brand as well: that site doesn't say "eh wind0z3 iz teh suxxorz, hate hate," but "I like Windows, but these are the specific problems I see with Win8 as it's currently presented; this I propose to fix the issues".

freehunter 15y ago
The solution in the article is "add a taskbar" or "bring the desktop back". That's not fixing Windows 8, that's completely ignoring it.
- MatthewPhillips 15y ago
  Taskbars are very useful on mouse-driven interfaces. That's why they are so common.
  - freehunter 15y ago
    Is it that? Or is it that taskbars are so common on mouse driven interfaces, and that is why they are useful? In other words, are they useful because they're inherently better, or are they useful because that's what you're used to?
    - MatthewPhillips 15y ago
      Does it matter?
      - freehunter 15y ago
        I would argue yes. Why stick with a broken design? Just because you're used to it? What about people who aren't used to it? If there's a better way, why not strive for it?
        MatthewPhillips 15y ago
        What is the better way to switch between tasks using a mouse?
        streptomycin 15y ago
        GNOME Shell is one approach: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/97/GNOME_Shell.png http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/97/GNOME_She...
        freehunter 15y ago
        The start screen seems to work.
        MatthewPhillips 15y ago
        The start screen is for starting tasks. I agree that it works as well as any other (it has search, that's all you really need). I'm talking about switching between running tasks though. What is the Windows 8 method that is superior to a taskbar? Tiled windows managers are not new by the way. But Microsoft has made one that's not very intuitive or full featured for a mouse/keyboard.
        freehunter 15y ago
        You can resume a running app from the start screen.
        MatthewPhillips 15y ago
        I understand that; this this a superior method than switching on a taskbar? I say absolutely not.
- Piskvorrr 15y ago
  Have you actually used the W8 CP, or read the website? The desktop is still there; and that taskbar is there as well, but it's hard to discover (most of the UI elements are hidden by default, and it's not even obvious they exist). Most of the changes proposed are not UI overhauls, nor Metro killers, but more of a repositioning of various elements when using the system without a touch device. In other words, you seem to be doing quite the same thing you accuse others of, but in reverse: "you're either 110% happy with the perfect UI in the new release, or MS haters." The UI has potential to be useful, but it currently feels half-baked (and there isn't time to finish such major changes between a CP and RTM versions); perhaps W9 will finish and polish it?
  - freehunter 15y ago
    The desktop is there as a backwards compatibility crutch. It's not discoverable because Microsoft doesn't want you to discover it. XP Mode in Windows 7 isn't discoverable either. I take exception to the "either a lover or a hater" comment. I have plenty of criticisms of Windows 8, like I had many with Windows 7. But if there's one thing you learn about trying to talk some sense into the Internet, it's to not waffle on your position. Look at how quickly people picked up on "one single consumer reportedly didn't like the Windows 8 beta, therefore Windows 8 is a complete failure!" bandwagon. Now imagine the responses any reasonable debate would garner if someone said "I think Windows 8 will be good, but one thing I don't like is..." Yeah, the very next response would be "see, even Microsoft lovers hate Windows 8!"
    - Piskvorrr 15y ago
      Well, let's get that out of the way, then: "see, even Microsoft lovers hate Windows 8!" ;o) Anyway: you do have a point with waffle-resistance; but "talking sense into the Internet" sounds a bit futile...especially when the Internet is trying to do the same, with senses that are incompatible to yours. The video is indeed somewhat unfortunate (note that I've actually watched it much later than this discussion started) in that it's easy to latch on, instead of the - somewhat positive - rest of that site.

freehunter 15y ago

The solution in the article is "add a taskbar" or "bring the desktop back". That's not fixing Windows 8, that's completely ignoring it.

MatthewPhillips 15y ago
Taskbars are very useful on mouse-driven interfaces. That's why they are so common.
- freehunter 15y ago
  Is it that? Or is it that taskbars are so common on mouse driven interfaces, and that is why they are useful? In other words, are they useful because they're inherently better, or are they useful because that's what you're used to?
  - MatthewPhillips 15y ago
    Does it matter?
    - freehunter 15y ago
      I would argue yes. Why stick with a broken design? Just because you're used to it? What about people who aren't used to it? If there's a better way, why not strive for it?
      - MatthewPhillips 15y ago
        What is the better way to switch between tasks using a mouse?
        streptomycin 15y ago
        GNOME Shell is one approach: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/97/GNOME_Shell.png http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/97/GNOME_She...
        freehunter 15y ago
        The start screen seems to work.
        MatthewPhillips 15y ago
        The start screen is for starting tasks. I agree that it works as well as any other (it has search, that's all you really need). I'm talking about switching between running tasks though. What is the Windows 8 method that is superior to a taskbar? Tiled windows managers are not new by the way. But Microsoft has made one that's not very intuitive or full featured for a mouse/keyboard.
        freehunter 15y ago
        You can resume a running app from the start screen.
        MatthewPhillips 15y ago
        I understand that; this this a superior method than switching on a taskbar? I say absolutely not.
Piskvorrr 15y ago
Have you actually used the W8 CP, or read the website? The desktop is still there; and that taskbar is there as well, but it's hard to discover (most of the UI elements are hidden by default, and it's not even obvious they exist). Most of the changes proposed are not UI overhauls, nor Metro killers, but more of a repositioning of various elements when using the system without a touch device. In other words, you seem to be doing quite the same thing you accuse others of, but in reverse: "you're either 110% happy with the perfect UI in the new release, or MS haters." The UI has potential to be useful, but it currently feels half-baked (and there isn't time to finish such major changes between a CP and RTM versions); perhaps W9 will finish and polish it?
- freehunter 15y ago
  The desktop is there as a backwards compatibility crutch. It's not discoverable because Microsoft doesn't want you to discover it. XP Mode in Windows 7 isn't discoverable either. I take exception to the "either a lover or a hater" comment. I have plenty of criticisms of Windows 8, like I had many with Windows 7. But if there's one thing you learn about trying to talk some sense into the Internet, it's to not waffle on your position. Look at how quickly people picked up on "one single consumer reportedly didn't like the Windows 8 beta, therefore Windows 8 is a complete failure!" bandwagon. Now imagine the responses any reasonable debate would garner if someone said "I think Windows 8 will be good, but one thing I don't like is..." Yeah, the very next response would be "see, even Microsoft lovers hate Windows 8!"
  - Piskvorrr 15y ago
    Well, let's get that out of the way, then: "see, even Microsoft lovers hate Windows 8!" ;o) Anyway: you do have a point with waffle-resistance; but "talking sense into the Internet" sounds a bit futile...especially when the Internet is trying to do the same, with senses that are incompatible to yours. The video is indeed somewhat unfortunate (note that I've actually watched it much later than this discussion started) in that it's easy to latch on, instead of the - somewhat positive - rest of that site.