4 ms·

Unpopular opinion here for sure as I see enty of calls for regulation and antitrust suits, the easiest answer is for people to simply stop using Google products

Unpopular opinion here for sure as I see enty of calls for regulation and antitrust suits, the easiest answer is for people to simply stop using Google products. Sure that's easier said than done given how much we depend on them today, but is it really harder than convincing the federal government to step in and break up companies that pay huge lobbying bills, understand how tech companies work in the first place, design new regulations to prevent this happening again, and sit waiting to scrutinize any acquisitions that may come from the break up? Call me naive, but I think if people really care they have a much better chance to avoid Google than the government has of actually fixing this on our behalf.

lxgr 3y ago
You’re assuming a level of understanding of the market structure and technical details of browsers and web advertising that probably less than 5% of Chrome users possess.
- flagrant_taco 3y ago
  Yeah for sure, but the solution to an uneducated populous isn't large governments and regulation. That's a bandaid at best, but it's never sustainable.
  - lxgr 3y ago
    If it was possible for everybody to be educated about everything, we'd indeed probably need neither regulators nor politicians. As much as I personally like discussing the economic and political impact of various web specifications – there are a lot of things happening in modern society, and everybody only has so much time and mental resources to care about every single one in detail.
    - flagrant_taco 3y ago
      That's more am argument for simplifying modern society in my opinion. If I think Google's latest antics are dangerous enough for society as whole to warrant government intervention, I first have to assume that the majority of people don't get it but would be opposed if only they better understood. What gives me the right to make that decision on their behalf? And if I don't know they would care, can I really push through my own intervention? Not to mention the assumption we have to make that government regulators actually do understand and can relate in an unbiased way with only consumers best interests in mind.
rndgermandude 3y ago
>simply stop using Google products Google squashed most of the competition in a lot of sectors, and the few remaining competitors aren't any better often. Aside, even if you do not actively use google, google will still be in your life, by tracking and selling you. Already there is realistically no way to entirely "ungooglify" your life as long as you live and partake in some modern western society. And soon it seems, you will be using a Google browser because you have to, because your bank or employer website or whatever will require their web "attestation" DRM, and will not accept your Firefox, Brave, Chromium, Vivaldi, Opera or whatever attestation. And if you're hoping for other attestation vendors... Try streaming anything that needs a subscription without using Google's widevine DRM. You will be surprised on how few options there are, not just in implementations but in streaming services that support anything besides Google's widevine. Google and probably Microsoft and Apple will be big enough browser vendors to be widely supported "attested environments" and attestation providers. Everybody else will bite the dust on that front. E.g. "x% of websites do not accept Firefox's attestation" will drive more users away from Firefox, and that in turn will lead to even fewer websites supporting Firefox attestation because why spend the dev resources to support it with that measly market share when people can just use one of the big browsers?! And google knows this very well, from the "works best/only in Chrome" to widevine. They were even able to make MS abandon their browser engine and jump on the google engine train, after all. This to me is very clearly an antitrust issue that needs antitrust suits and regulation.
- flagrant_taco 3y ago
  While most people don't care enough to do this, it isn't as hard as people might expect to drastically reduce use of Google products. The sacrifice is almost entirely on convenience unless you're employment depends on it. Use Firefox, install some basic ad blockers, and don't use Gmail or Google maps. That definitely won't be totally de-googked but it goes pretty far. If Google does force through this attestation model that's a different story. Though that is effectively Google killing the internet if companies decide to use the feature. Thankfully we survived without the internet for a long time, we can go back to going in person to our bank or calling them on the phone.

lxgr 3y ago

You’re assuming a level of understanding of the market structure and technical details of browsers and web advertising that probably less than 5% of Chrome users possess.

flagrant_taco 3y ago
Yeah for sure, but the solution to an uneducated populous isn't large governments and regulation. That's a bandaid at best, but it's never sustainable.
- lxgr 3y ago
  If it was possible for everybody to be educated about everything, we'd indeed probably need neither regulators nor politicians. As much as I personally like discussing the economic and political impact of various web specifications – there are a lot of things happening in modern society, and everybody only has so much time and mental resources to care about every single one in detail.
  - flagrant_taco 3y ago
    That's more am argument for simplifying modern society in my opinion. If I think Google's latest antics are dangerous enough for society as whole to warrant government intervention, I first have to assume that the majority of people don't get it but would be opposed if only they better understood. What gives me the right to make that decision on their behalf? And if I don't know they would care, can I really push through my own intervention? Not to mention the assumption we have to make that government regulators actually do understand and can relate in an unbiased way with only consumers best interests in mind.

rndgermandude 3y ago

>simply stop using Google products Google squashed most of the competition in a lot of sectors, and the few remaining competitors aren't any better often. Aside, even if you do not actively use google, google will still be in your life, by tracking and selling you. Already there is realistically no way to entirely "ungooglify" your life as long as you live and partake in some modern western society. And soon it seems, you will be using a Google browser because you have to, because your bank or employer website or whatever will require their web "attestation" DRM, and will not accept your Firefox, Brave, Chromium, Vivaldi, Opera or whatever attestation. And if you're hoping for other attestation vendors... Try streaming anything that needs a subscription without using Google's widevine DRM. You will be surprised on how few options there are, not just in implementations but in streaming services that support anything besides Google's widevine. Google and probably Microsoft and Apple will be big enough browser vendors to be widely supported "attested environments" and attestation providers. Everybody else will bite the dust on that front. E.g. "x% of websites do not accept Firefox's attestation" will drive more users away from Firefox, and that in turn will lead to even fewer websites supporting Firefox attestation because why spend the dev resources to support it with that measly market share when people can just use one of the big browsers?! And google knows this very well, from the "works best/only in Chrome" to widevine. They were even able to make MS abandon their browser engine and jump on the google engine train, after all. This to me is very clearly an antitrust issue that needs antitrust suits and regulation.

flagrant_taco 3y ago
While most people don't care enough to do this, it isn't as hard as people might expect to drastically reduce use of Google products. The sacrifice is almost entirely on convenience unless you're employment depends on it. Use Firefox, install some basic ad blockers, and don't use Gmail or Google maps. That definitely won't be totally de-googked but it goes pretty far. If Google does force through this attestation model that's a different story. Though that is effectively Google killing the internet if companies decide to use the feature. Thankfully we survived without the internet for a long time, we can go back to going in person to our bank or calling them on the phone.