4 ms·

Or you could take the Singapore approach and execute all drug traffickers. Whether this is moral is arguable, but it certainly has been effective - drug deaths

by D_Alex 3y ago

Or you could take the Singapore approach and execute all drug traffickers. Whether this is moral is arguable, but it certainly has been effective - drug deaths per capita in Singapore are about 100 times lower than in the US. And if you include the executed drug traffickers in the count, the total is still 80 times lower.

pstuart 3y ago
So you believe we should kill all the brewers, bartenders, liquor store clerks etc? Alcohol has no medically redeeming values and is the cause of a lot of death and suffering. This will keep us safe, right?
- pfannkuchen 3y ago
  Alcohol isn’t currently causing a problem on the scale of the problems that certain other drugs are causing. I think that is fairly obvious?
  - Prickle 3y ago
    Last I checked, annually , more people die from tobacco use and alcohol poisoning than illicit drug use. ~480,000 deaths annually from tobacco ~140,000 deaths annually from alcohol ~109,680 deaths in 2022 from drug overdose *Data is exclusively taken from the USA
  - extragood 3y ago
    Alcohol deaths worldwide overshadow drug deaths by a large margin. Opiods are the biggest share at 70% WHO has 3 million deaths linked to alcohol [1] vs .5 million for narcotics. [1] https://www.who.int/news-room/fact-sheets/detail/alcohol https://www.who.int/news-room/fact-sheets/detail/alcohol [2] https://www.who.int/news-room/fact-sheets/detail/opioid-overdose https://www.who.int/news-room/fact-sheets/detail/opioid-over...
  - latchkey 3y ago
    It is amazing to me how you could say this. That's how socialized alcohol is to people. It isn't even deaths as a metric... it is everything around it too. Sure there are a lot of news articles about people bent over on fenty right now and that is terrible, but that pales in contrast to all of alcohol abuse related issues. Let's also remember that a lot of people (watch the interviews of people on YT) start using fenty because they want something stronger/cheaper than what they were previously using, like alcohol. https://www.niaaa.nih.gov/alcohols-effects-health/alcohol-topics/alcohol-facts-and-statistics/alcohol-related-emergencies-and-deaths-united-states https://www.niaaa.nih.gov/alcohols-effects-health/alcohol-to...
  - pstuart 3y ago
    140,000 people a year dead from alcohol means nothing to you? And it's not just the deaths, it's destroyed so many lives in so many ways, from car accidents to domestic violence. It's a dangerous drug and to pretend otherwise is disingenuous at best. https://www.niaaa.nih.gov/alcohols-effects-health/alcohol-topics/alcohol-facts-and-statistics/alcohol-related-emergencies-and-deaths-united-states#:~:text=It%20is%20estimated%20that%20more,physical%20inactivity%2C%20and%20illegal%20drugs https://www.niaaa.nih.gov/alcohols-effects-health/alcohol-to.... And a paper showing that alcohol is more dangerous than heroin: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/21665157/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/21665157/
- D_Alex 3y ago
  >So you believe we should kill all the brewers, bartenders, liquor store clerks etc? Yes of course. Why do you even ask, I thought this much was totally clear from my original post.
tayo42 3y ago
What's the point of executing people other then to be violent? It's barbaric what those countries do becasue someone wants to use a substance. Singapore has so much different then the US that you can't compare. Maybe they don't use drugs culturally? It's a small country, with tons of social safety nets for it's citizens. People might not hit the same lows. It's also a city on an island. You need to isolate the variables before saying executing is effective
- kortilla 3y ago
  >What's the point of executing people other then to be violent? It’s a deterrent. Whether it’s life in prison or an execution, it drastically reduces the expected value of being a drug dealer.
  - satellite2 3y ago
    As GP said, there is zero evidence that deterrent works. On the other hand, there is plenty of evidence that being rich and a good social support system have a preventive effect. Two things that are well represented in Singapore.
    - gettodachoppa 3y ago
      Lee Kwan Yew himself said that capital punishment for drug trafficking is necessary to keep his country clean, and I'll take his word over yours, or some agenda-driven soft-science academic working on studies who's never been around criminals. Don't @ me with "appeal to authority", I admit it gladly. I don't worship at the altar of scientism (EDIT: scientism doesn't seem to be the correct word, it's not negative like I thought. I'm criticizing the "I Hecking Love Science (TM)" mentality that treat crappy non-reproducible soft-science studies as something that somehow has more value than common sense.) You want to convince me, create better societies that are safer to live in than Singapore.
      - worrycue 3y ago
        Maybe I misremembered, I recall LKY saying, to paraphrase, “Don’t tell me harsh punishment don’t work. I have seen it work very well during the WWII Japanese occupation”.
csomar 3y ago
I'm sorry but you are completely delusional. Singapore is a tiny island that sells peace, safety and cleanliness to top investors at the expense of everything else. Executing drug traffickers is just part of their investor pitch. If investors decided tomorrow that they like pot, Singapore will go ahead and legalize it.
- gmerc 3y ago
  I’m sorry but you do not understand local culture and are fact free hallucinating. This has nothing to do with investors and everything with the founding generation having seen the impact of opium dens (there were a lot here) and acting hard and fast on it. The country has no natural resources, all the investments they do go into their people, especially though education. Drugs disable a part of that investment, they won’t have it. It’s not magical caring either, You just don’t get to do things that deprive the country of your labor. We just about decriminalized suicide here. And because of the island with 5 points of entry situation, they actually can make it work for them. People need to go light on chatgpt, it just mimics humans in their hallucinations
- worrycue 3y ago
  > If investors decided tomorrow that they like pot, Singapore will go ahead and legalize it. Sale of chewing/bubble gum is still banned - possession isn’t a problem though. Frankly, if pot was so profitable that the gov want a slice of it, they would carve out special areas just for it and restrict access by locals to those areas. That’s kind of what they did with gambling. There is a legal casino but as a local you have to pay a $150 daily entry fee to enter the casino - although I heard there is also a $2000 annual entry fee.* You have lost money before you even start gambling. LOL * And if they feel there are too many problem gamblers still, they will probably rise the fee further.
pstuart 3y ago
An interesting article on Singapore's drug executions, with acknowledgement of how unfair it is: https://www.vice.com/en/article/xgwvqd/singapore-drug-executions https://www.vice.com/en/article/xgwvqd/singapore-drug-execut...

by D_Alex 3y ago

pstuart 3y ago

So you believe we should kill all the brewers, bartenders, liquor store clerks etc? Alcohol has no medically redeeming values and is the cause of a lot of death and suffering. This will keep us safe, right?

pfannkuchen 3y ago
Alcohol isn’t currently causing a problem on the scale of the problems that certain other drugs are causing. I think that is fairly obvious?
- Prickle 3y ago
  Last I checked, annually , more people die from tobacco use and alcohol poisoning than illicit drug use. ~480,000 deaths annually from tobacco ~140,000 deaths annually from alcohol ~109,680 deaths in 2022 from drug overdose *Data is exclusively taken from the USA
- extragood 3y ago
  Alcohol deaths worldwide overshadow drug deaths by a large margin. Opiods are the biggest share at 70% WHO has 3 million deaths linked to alcohol [1] vs .5 million for narcotics. [1] https://www.who.int/news-room/fact-sheets/detail/alcohol https://www.who.int/news-room/fact-sheets/detail/alcohol [2] https://www.who.int/news-room/fact-sheets/detail/opioid-overdose https://www.who.int/news-room/fact-sheets/detail/opioid-over...
- latchkey 3y ago
  It is amazing to me how you could say this. That's how socialized alcohol is to people. It isn't even deaths as a metric... it is everything around it too. Sure there are a lot of news articles about people bent over on fenty right now and that is terrible, but that pales in contrast to all of alcohol abuse related issues. Let's also remember that a lot of people (watch the interviews of people on YT) start using fenty because they want something stronger/cheaper than what they were previously using, like alcohol. https://www.niaaa.nih.gov/alcohols-effects-health/alcohol-topics/alcohol-facts-and-statistics/alcohol-related-emergencies-and-deaths-united-states https://www.niaaa.nih.gov/alcohols-effects-health/alcohol-to...
- pstuart 3y ago
  140,000 people a year dead from alcohol means nothing to you? And it's not just the deaths, it's destroyed so many lives in so many ways, from car accidents to domestic violence. It's a dangerous drug and to pretend otherwise is disingenuous at best. https://www.niaaa.nih.gov/alcohols-effects-health/alcohol-topics/alcohol-facts-and-statistics/alcohol-related-emergencies-and-deaths-united-states#:~:text=It%20is%20estimated%20that%20more,physical%20inactivity%2C%20and%20illegal%20drugs https://www.niaaa.nih.gov/alcohols-effects-health/alcohol-to.... And a paper showing that alcohol is more dangerous than heroin: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/21665157/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/21665157/
D_Alex 3y ago
>So you believe we should kill all the brewers, bartenders, liquor store clerks etc? Yes of course. Why do you even ask, I thought this much was totally clear from my original post.

tayo42 3y ago

What's the point of executing people other then to be violent? It's barbaric what those countries do becasue someone wants to use a substance. Singapore has so much different then the US that you can't compare. Maybe they don't use drugs culturally? It's a small country, with tons of social safety nets for it's citizens. People might not hit the same lows. It's also a city on an island. You need to isolate the variables before saying executing is effective

kortilla 3y ago
>What's the point of executing people other then to be violent? It’s a deterrent. Whether it’s life in prison or an execution, it drastically reduces the expected value of being a drug dealer.
- satellite2 3y ago
  As GP said, there is zero evidence that deterrent works. On the other hand, there is plenty of evidence that being rich and a good social support system have a preventive effect. Two things that are well represented in Singapore.
  - gettodachoppa 3y ago
    Lee Kwan Yew himself said that capital punishment for drug trafficking is necessary to keep his country clean, and I'll take his word over yours, or some agenda-driven soft-science academic working on studies who's never been around criminals. Don't @ me with "appeal to authority", I admit it gladly. I don't worship at the altar of scientism (EDIT: scientism doesn't seem to be the correct word, it's not negative like I thought. I'm criticizing the "I Hecking Love Science (TM)" mentality that treat crappy non-reproducible soft-science studies as something that somehow has more value than common sense.) You want to convince me, create better societies that are safer to live in than Singapore.
    - worrycue 3y ago
      Maybe I misremembered, I recall LKY saying, to paraphrase, “Don’t tell me harsh punishment don’t work. I have seen it work very well during the WWII Japanese occupation”.

csomar 3y ago

I'm sorry but you are completely delusional. Singapore is a tiny island that sells peace, safety and cleanliness to top investors at the expense of everything else. Executing drug traffickers is just part of their investor pitch. If investors decided tomorrow that they like pot, Singapore will go ahead and legalize it.

gmerc 3y ago
I’m sorry but you do not understand local culture and are fact free hallucinating. This has nothing to do with investors and everything with the founding generation having seen the impact of opium dens (there were a lot here) and acting hard and fast on it. The country has no natural resources, all the investments they do go into their people, especially though education. Drugs disable a part of that investment, they won’t have it. It’s not magical caring either, You just don’t get to do things that deprive the country of your labor. We just about decriminalized suicide here. And because of the island with 5 points of entry situation, they actually can make it work for them. People need to go light on chatgpt, it just mimics humans in their hallucinations
worrycue 3y ago
> If investors decided tomorrow that they like pot, Singapore will go ahead and legalize it. Sale of chewing/bubble gum is still banned - possession isn’t a problem though. Frankly, if pot was so profitable that the gov want a slice of it, they would carve out special areas just for it and restrict access by locals to those areas. That’s kind of what they did with gambling. There is a legal casino but as a local you have to pay a $150 daily entry fee to enter the casino - although I heard there is also a $2000 annual entry fee.* You have lost money before you even start gambling. LOL * And if they feel there are too many problem gamblers still, they will probably rise the fee further.

pstuart 3y ago

An interesting article on Singapore's drug executions, with acknowledgement of how unfair it is: https://www.vice.com/en/article/xgwvqd/singapore-drug-executions https://www.vice.com/en/article/xgwvqd/singapore-drug-execut...