4 ms·

The phone system of the world is sooo broken but too entrenched to replace with something reasonable.

by msh 3y ago

resonious 3y ago
What would be a reasonable replacement?
- civilitty 3y ago
  I vote for hand grenades.
- nurple 3y ago
  ZMQ of course! In all seriousness, I’ve always found the author’s odd rant on the contemporary wireless communication system quite interesting. In my mind, the issues with the current system are not so much technical as they are regulatory. There are many industries where artificial scarcity is captured by bribing… errr buying the right to that control from the Gov (while competition is held off using their monopoly on violence). Sending an SMS, especially these days, costs on the order of sending a single TCP packet over the Internet. Together with the payment industry, we’ve been duped out of trillions in usage fees for tech that was invented and put into use by hobbyists for decades before the rent seekers showed up. https://zguide.zeromq.org/docs/chapter8/ https://zguide.zeromq.org/docs/chapter8/
  - pcthrowaway 3y ago
    The zmq docs are a treasure. The section in that chapter about building service discovery from scratch on a local network is one of the best technical guides I've read
- smt88 3y ago
  GP is likely referring not to the implementation, not the product itself. The phone system was not built with basic modern necessities like authentication. You don't know that the number on your caller ID is actually owned by the person calling you, for example. A better system would have an authentication scheme and encryption for sure. As we've seen from RCS and iMessage, it doesn't need to sacrifice backward compatibility, either.
  - hakfoo 3y ago
    Wasn't part of this a fault of deregulation? In a 1975-era model, where AT&T owned all the physical plant, there was no point of interface where information would be lost. Presumably all the necessary information to monitor abuse was in the same place, because it needed to be accounted and billed for. There was no "Well, we know the calls are coming from Bob's Telecom and Shrimp Cannery, but all we can do is send them an angry letter" black hole. I'd expect there were also fewer opportunities for arbitrage hacks-- I doubt a monopoly player needs to do any sort of kick-back scheme to get someone to generate extra fruadulent traffic.
    - mschuster91 3y ago
      Even back then you'd have AT&T interact with foreign countries' operators.
    - TeMPOraL 3y ago
      You're assuming the operators are trying to stop the abuse in the first place. They aren't - they're making money from it. Hell, they even offer discounts to some abusers.
- msh 3y ago
  I think the current phone system is a legacy from another time. I dont know what the replacement should be but I think the following would be MVP requirements: Only the owner of a phone number can present it as the calling number, so if you receive a call or message you can be guaranteed (within reason) that its from the owner of the number. Overcharged numbers must not exist, if billing is needed it must be over another channel. Or at a minimum require specific optin pr number between the caller and their carrier (not the carrier where the number is terminated). Personally I also think that anonymous calls should not be allowed, I think they should always be required to show the phone number that is calling you.
  - notpushkin 3y ago
    I think WhatsApp or Telegram check the boxes of your proposed MVP. Or Skype. Or any other VoIP service, frankly. Discord? Matrix? E-mail link to a Jitsi Meet call? The problem with the legacy phone system is that everybody uses it and it's hard to get off of it. I think more and more people rarely ever use it though, except as “dumb pipe” for data.
usr1106 3y ago
Like with Apple? Or Google Android? Or Microsoft Windows you must pay for even if you never use it? Not trying to say the phone system is without problems. But it's often "modern" IT people who criticize it with attitude we could do better. IMHO most modern IT ecosystems are horrible in terms of freedom and markets.

The phone system of the world is sooo broken but too entrenched to replace with something reasonable.

by msh 3y ago

The phone system of the world is sooo broken but too entrenched to replace with something reasonable.

resonious 3y ago

What would be a reasonable replacement?

civilitty 3y ago
I vote for hand grenades.
nurple 3y ago
ZMQ of course! In all seriousness, I’ve always found the author’s odd rant on the contemporary wireless communication system quite interesting. In my mind, the issues with the current system are not so much technical as they are regulatory. There are many industries where artificial scarcity is captured by bribing… errr buying the right to that control from the Gov (while competition is held off using their monopoly on violence). Sending an SMS, especially these days, costs on the order of sending a single TCP packet over the Internet. Together with the payment industry, we’ve been duped out of trillions in usage fees for tech that was invented and put into use by hobbyists for decades before the rent seekers showed up. https://zguide.zeromq.org/docs/chapter8/ https://zguide.zeromq.org/docs/chapter8/
- pcthrowaway 3y ago
  The zmq docs are a treasure. The section in that chapter about building service discovery from scratch on a local network is one of the best technical guides I've read
smt88 3y ago
GP is likely referring not to the implementation, not the product itself. The phone system was not built with basic modern necessities like authentication. You don't know that the number on your caller ID is actually owned by the person calling you, for example. A better system would have an authentication scheme and encryption for sure. As we've seen from RCS and iMessage, it doesn't need to sacrifice backward compatibility, either.
- hakfoo 3y ago
  Wasn't part of this a fault of deregulation? In a 1975-era model, where AT&T owned all the physical plant, there was no point of interface where information would be lost. Presumably all the necessary information to monitor abuse was in the same place, because it needed to be accounted and billed for. There was no "Well, we know the calls are coming from Bob's Telecom and Shrimp Cannery, but all we can do is send them an angry letter" black hole. I'd expect there were also fewer opportunities for arbitrage hacks-- I doubt a monopoly player needs to do any sort of kick-back scheme to get someone to generate extra fruadulent traffic.
  - mschuster91 3y ago
    Even back then you'd have AT&T interact with foreign countries' operators.
  - TeMPOraL 3y ago
    You're assuming the operators are trying to stop the abuse in the first place. They aren't - they're making money from it. Hell, they even offer discounts to some abusers.
msh 3y ago
I think the current phone system is a legacy from another time. I dont know what the replacement should be but I think the following would be MVP requirements: Only the owner of a phone number can present it as the calling number, so if you receive a call or message you can be guaranteed (within reason) that its from the owner of the number. Overcharged numbers must not exist, if billing is needed it must be over another channel. Or at a minimum require specific optin pr number between the caller and their carrier (not the carrier where the number is terminated). Personally I also think that anonymous calls should not be allowed, I think they should always be required to show the phone number that is calling you.
- notpushkin 3y ago
  I think WhatsApp or Telegram check the boxes of your proposed MVP. Or Skype. Or any other VoIP service, frankly. Discord? Matrix? E-mail link to a Jitsi Meet call? The problem with the legacy phone system is that everybody uses it and it's hard to get off of it. I think more and more people rarely ever use it though, except as “dumb pipe” for data.

usr1106 3y ago

Like with Apple? Or Google Android? Or Microsoft Windows you must pay for even if you never use it? Not trying to say the phone system is without problems. But it's often "modern" IT people who criticize it with attitude we could do better. IMHO most modern IT ecosystems are horrible in terms of freedom and markets.