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But then such designer is not a target for this "Manifesto". BTW, I see value in having one person create designs as HTML files, but I also know a lot of desig

by _johnny 15y ago

But then such designer is not a target for this "Manifesto". BTW, I see value in having one person create designs as HTML files, but I also know a lot of designers who create beautiful, graphics-rich designs and don't know much about code. I suppose it's much harder to find people who can do both as good as separate people.

gnaritas 15y ago
Graphics rich designs that don't come with the markup, aren't beautiful. Any designer that can't code his own markup isn't a designer worth having, and certainly isn't a web designer. He's a print designer who doesn't know he's obsolete. If you can't build me a complete cross browser HTML template, a skin, for a website, you aren't a web designer. That means you must know HTML, CSS, browser idiosyncrocies, and possibly some very light JavaScript. Developers should never even see a PSD file or worry about what it looks like in IE. That's a designers job.
- _johnny 15y ago
  > If you can't build me a complete cross browser HTML template, a skin, for a website, you aren't a web designer. If you've found such people - great. In places I've worked it was different. And designers did exceptionally beautiful things which I really appreciate. I'm proud that I've worked with them, even if they left some mess to be cleaned. There is some knowledge and experience needed in dealing with IE6, having CSS well organized, images optimized, adding even light JavaScript. If I was hiring (I do not), I'd totally prefer to have two people who can together build something great, than look for one person and receive worse results. And I'd prefer my people to do what they do best. The skillset required in designing rich graphics is different than coding.
  - gnaritas 15y ago
    Hate to tell you bub, but none of that is coding. It's all simple markup, and a designer that can't do his own markup just isn't qualified, there are far too many available candidates that can to even bother talking to one who can't. If all someone knows is making pretty images in photoshop, they simply aren't web designers, they're print designers who dabble in the web, amateurs.
    - _johnny 15y ago
      > they're print designers who dabble in the web, amateurs They're print designers but definitely not amateurs. In the end, what really matters is that the client receives very high quality work and it is cost effective for the company. I understand that not every company works this way, but I have worked for and know some that do exactly this. I don't really want to discuss it anymore, I feel we're repeating the same arguments over and over.

by _johnny 15y ago

gnaritas 15y ago

Graphics rich designs that don't come with the markup, aren't beautiful. Any designer that can't code his own markup isn't a designer worth having, and certainly isn't a web designer. He's a print designer who doesn't know he's obsolete. If you can't build me a complete cross browser HTML template, a skin, for a website, you aren't a web designer. That means you must know HTML, CSS, browser idiosyncrocies, and possibly some very light JavaScript. Developers should never even see a PSD file or worry about what it looks like in IE. That's a designers job.

_johnny 15y ago
> If you can't build me a complete cross browser HTML template, a skin, for a website, you aren't a web designer. If you've found such people - great. In places I've worked it was different. And designers did exceptionally beautiful things which I really appreciate. I'm proud that I've worked with them, even if they left some mess to be cleaned. There is some knowledge and experience needed in dealing with IE6, having CSS well organized, images optimized, adding even light JavaScript. If I was hiring (I do not), I'd totally prefer to have two people who can together build something great, than look for one person and receive worse results. And I'd prefer my people to do what they do best. The skillset required in designing rich graphics is different than coding.
- gnaritas 15y ago
  Hate to tell you bub, but none of that is coding. It's all simple markup, and a designer that can't do his own markup just isn't qualified, there are far too many available candidates that can to even bother talking to one who can't. If all someone knows is making pretty images in photoshop, they simply aren't web designers, they're print designers who dabble in the web, amateurs.
  - _johnny 15y ago
    > they're print designers who dabble in the web, amateurs They're print designers but definitely not amateurs. In the end, what really matters is that the client receives very high quality work and it is cost effective for the company. I understand that not every company works this way, but I have worked for and know some that do exactly this. I don't really want to discuss it anymore, I feel we're repeating the same arguments over and over.