3 ms·

> If “wage theft” is relevant, then so is time theft How? Isn't this a whataboutism? And do your bullet points have sources? They sound like the sort of thing

> If “wage theft” is relevant, then so is time theft How? Isn't this a whataboutism? And do your bullet points have sources? They sound like the sort of thing a corrupt business would falsely report.

robocat 3y ago
What about that whataboutism? I am trying to parody the point that as soon as we decide that theft can mean whatever we wish it to (for presumably good reasons), then that implicitly allows everyone (including people you’d rather didn’t) to use theft to mean whatever they want it to. Civil forfeiture is not theft (although it certainly feels like it to victims, and there are similarities between the two concepts). Thread root claims wage theft is a bigger problem, and I am balancing that with time theft. Sorry for stealing your attention.
- skeaker 3y ago
  >Civil forfeiture is not theft (although it certainly feels like it to victims, and there are similarities between the two concepts). How do you figure? The way I see it, civil forfeiture IS theft. Taking something that belongs to someone else without their consent is theft and that seems to be precisely what civil forfeiture consists of. Just because a court has labelled it differently if someone in a blue hat does it does not make it suddenly not theft. It is simply court-sanctioned theft.
  - robocat 3y ago
    Try not paying a parking fine, and you might find you get “stolen from” without your consent by debt collectors, credit rating agencies (and the services you need that use those agencies), and finally the court system can steal from you. Do you think taxes are theft? Plenty of people would argue taxes are not consensual. Words can mean whatever we want. “Theft from the government” could be defined as someone being insufficiently civil, or someone showing insufficient altruism towards other citizens.
- varnaud 3y ago
  I used to work 10h shifts in a warehouse unloading trucks. Managers would talk about time theft like slow walking to the bathroom and taking lots of time in there, recent walk to the water fountain or just too much talking with the other workers. From their POV, the hours we spent in the warehouse must be used to unload trucks, store the goods and load trucks. Any time outside the allowed breaks not spent doing that is stolen from them, because they own it by paying the worker a salary. There was workers also complaining about time theft if one annoying person was working less hard than them. Sometimes, out of boredom, I would push myself to unload a truck as quickly as possible. Most of the time, I would work at a comfortable pace. Often, the goods in the truck were tricky to unload an in a team of 2 people, 1 would be ilde while the other with the right equipment deals with the problem. In this case, managers would say the idle person should "find something to do". It usually was taking a broom and stand with it, occasionally swooping it across the floor. Some people worked fast. Some worked slow. The pay was a flat yearly increase until you reached a cap. Today I'm a SWE, writing this comment while working from home. I often get praises by my manager for my work. I plan to clean my apartment this afternoon and maybe do some groceries. Never heard anything about time theft at my current workplace. Unfortunately, managers can see how many boxes are left in a truck and how many were unloaded, they can't really see how many more line of codes are needed to finish a feature or how much thinking about the problem is required to find a solution.

robocat 3y ago

What about that whataboutism? I am trying to parody the point that as soon as we decide that theft can mean whatever we wish it to (for presumably good reasons), then that implicitly allows everyone (including people you’d rather didn’t) to use theft to mean whatever they want it to. Civil forfeiture is not theft (although it certainly feels like it to victims, and there are similarities between the two concepts). Thread root claims wage theft is a bigger problem, and I am balancing that with time theft. Sorry for stealing your attention.

skeaker 3y ago
>Civil forfeiture is not theft (although it certainly feels like it to victims, and there are similarities between the two concepts). How do you figure? The way I see it, civil forfeiture IS theft. Taking something that belongs to someone else without their consent is theft and that seems to be precisely what civil forfeiture consists of. Just because a court has labelled it differently if someone in a blue hat does it does not make it suddenly not theft. It is simply court-sanctioned theft.
- robocat 3y ago
  Try not paying a parking fine, and you might find you get “stolen from” without your consent by debt collectors, credit rating agencies (and the services you need that use those agencies), and finally the court system can steal from you. Do you think taxes are theft? Plenty of people would argue taxes are not consensual. Words can mean whatever we want. “Theft from the government” could be defined as someone being insufficiently civil, or someone showing insufficient altruism towards other citizens.
varnaud 3y ago
I used to work 10h shifts in a warehouse unloading trucks. Managers would talk about time theft like slow walking to the bathroom and taking lots of time in there, recent walk to the water fountain or just too much talking with the other workers. From their POV, the hours we spent in the warehouse must be used to unload trucks, store the goods and load trucks. Any time outside the allowed breaks not spent doing that is stolen from them, because they own it by paying the worker a salary. There was workers also complaining about time theft if one annoying person was working less hard than them. Sometimes, out of boredom, I would push myself to unload a truck as quickly as possible. Most of the time, I would work at a comfortable pace. Often, the goods in the truck were tricky to unload an in a team of 2 people, 1 would be ilde while the other with the right equipment deals with the problem. In this case, managers would say the idle person should "find something to do". It usually was taking a broom and stand with it, occasionally swooping it across the floor. Some people worked fast. Some worked slow. The pay was a flat yearly increase until you reached a cap. Today I'm a SWE, writing this comment while working from home. I often get praises by my manager for my work. I plan to clean my apartment this afternoon and maybe do some groceries. Never heard anything about time theft at my current workplace. Unfortunately, managers can see how many boxes are left in a truck and how many were unloaded, they can't really see how many more line of codes are needed to finish a feature or how much thinking about the problem is required to find a solution.