3 ms·

> "do the ads actually work and how well" doesn't matter all that much to the people running the auction house The people running the ads are measuring the res

> "do the ads actually work and how well" doesn't matter all that much to the people running the auction house The people running the ads are measuring the results in different ways. Whether or not they see measurable increases attributed to their ad spend is what keeps them coming back, or not. Auction houses are inextricably linked to the results they are driving. It's most of the reason they get most of their business. This is why companies like Google and Facebook control so much of the ad market. Not just because they are popular publishers, but because they have some of the most sophisticated ad delivery and measurement platforms. I can transfer an ad click ID through to a sale and into my CRM, showing a 100% direct attribution. This attribution determines my likelihood to choose an "auction house" in the future. It's kind of crazy the level of disrespect and outright dismissal the HN community gives to the ad world.

Spivak 3y ago
You are describing the idealist of ideal attribution situations which was possible with banner ads in the 90s and did not at all address the fundamental issue. The reason it's an auction house in the first place is because these ad networks have no clue in the slightest how valuable the ad space or any particular impression is and only care about user data collection inasmuch as it convinces publishers to bid up the price. Whether the ads actually work, the user data is useful to your targeting or deliver any value at all is up to you to figure out. These ad networks own the market because they're the only suppliers of digital ad space with enough billboards to meet the massive demand; that's no small feat. And yes, they do have very far reaching tendrils to determine attribution which is also technically impressive but that's also not without a sea of muddy data especially when it comes to VTA. Google and Meta aren't magic and you're giving them far far too much credit for what are really your own (or the agency you paid) successful ad campaigns because you did all the work.
- jamiequint 3y ago
  > The reason it's an auction house in the first place is because these ad networks have no clue in the slightest how valuable the ad space or any particular impression is and only care about user data collection inasmuch as it convinces publishers to bid up the price. You're completely clueless, just stop talking. First, the "ad network" in this case and the "publisher" are the same thing. Second, nearly all of effective modern performance ad buys on the major publishers (Meta/Google) outsource most of the targeting to the publishers via tools like lookalike audiences (Meta) or dynamic search ads (Google), all of which are powered by user data. In fact, the publisher's loss of performance data via IDFA was the entire reason why losing IDFA was so bad for Meta. It wasn't that the buyers couldn't close the loop on who was converting (they could), it was that the publisher couldn't close the loop on who was converting (super important for targeting). The idea that buyers drive conversion and the publishers have not much to do with is wrong. It's blatantly obvious you have no direct experience in this area, and no idea what you're talking about. Sources: - Spent over $100m on performance ads - Started and ran an ad attribution company - Ran the team that built the Reddit ads platform and know how hard it is to make a performance ads platform work as well as Meta or Google (basically impossible)

Spivak 3y ago

You are describing the idealist of ideal attribution situations which was possible with banner ads in the 90s and did not at all address the fundamental issue. The reason it's an auction house in the first place is because these ad networks have no clue in the slightest how valuable the ad space or any particular impression is and only care about user data collection inasmuch as it convinces publishers to bid up the price. Whether the ads actually work, the user data is useful to your targeting or deliver any value at all is up to you to figure out. These ad networks own the market because they're the only suppliers of digital ad space with enough billboards to meet the massive demand; that's no small feat. And yes, they do have very far reaching tendrils to determine attribution which is also technically impressive but that's also not without a sea of muddy data especially when it comes to VTA. Google and Meta aren't magic and you're giving them far far too much credit for what are really your own (or the agency you paid) successful ad campaigns because you did all the work.

jamiequint 3y ago
> The reason it's an auction house in the first place is because these ad networks have no clue in the slightest how valuable the ad space or any particular impression is and only care about user data collection inasmuch as it convinces publishers to bid up the price. You're completely clueless, just stop talking. First, the "ad network" in this case and the "publisher" are the same thing. Second, nearly all of effective modern performance ad buys on the major publishers (Meta/Google) outsource most of the targeting to the publishers via tools like lookalike audiences (Meta) or dynamic search ads (Google), all of which are powered by user data. In fact, the publisher's loss of performance data via IDFA was the entire reason why losing IDFA was so bad for Meta. It wasn't that the buyers couldn't close the loop on who was converting (they could), it was that the publisher couldn't close the loop on who was converting (super important for targeting). The idea that buyers drive conversion and the publishers have not much to do with is wrong. It's blatantly obvious you have no direct experience in this area, and no idea what you're talking about. Sources: - Spent over $100m on performance ads - Started and ran an ad attribution company - Ran the team that built the Reddit ads platform and know how hard it is to make a performance ads platform work as well as Meta or Google (basically impossible)