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Here's a direct link to the source study: https://www.andersoneconomicgroup.com/many-gas-powered-cars-cheaper-to-fuel-than-electric-in-2023/ https://www.anderso

Here's a direct link to the source study: https://www.andersoneconomicgroup.com/many-gas-powered-cars-cheaper-to-fuel-than-electric-in-2023/ https://www.andersoneconomicgroup.com/many-gas-powered-cars-... edited to update my link to the latest version

tony_cannistra 3y ago
Sorry, that's not the correct link. Although that link describes the methodology and data sources, that is the version from 2022. The 2023 source is https://www.andersoneconomicgroup.com/many-gas-powered-cars-cheaper-to-fuel-than-electric-in-2023/ https://www.andersoneconomicgroup.com/many-gas-powered-cars-....
- jkubicek 3y ago
  Thanks, updated
- thatfrenchguy 3y ago
  Their data is smelly, from a quick computation from EPA.gov ( https://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/Find.do?action=sbs&id=46356&id=45750&id=45751 https://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/Find.do?action=sbs&id=46356&... ): a Nissan Versa gets so ~2.9 gallons for 100 miles, a Bolt 29kWh / 100 miles, at $5.025 a gallon (current California gas rates) and $0.26 a kWh (PG&E rate) that'd be ~$14.6 vs ~$7.26. If you compare instead in Texas at ~$3.4 a gallon / $0.14 a kWh, $9.86 / $4.06.
  - Vvector 3y ago
    The study also adds in "deadhead" time and miles required to drive to/from commercial chargers. It also calculates 12 hours/month waiting for the charger at $33/hour, so $400 extra a month.
jkubicek 3y ago
After reading the summary I linked to and browsing through the source PDF, I don't think these cost comparisons are fair or reasonable. First, they amortize the cost of home charging infrastructure over 5 years, but personally, that's not how I think about those costs. When I'm comparing prices between cars, I'm considering the home charging as a one-time upfront cost. Once I've paid that cost it's not part of my ongoing costs to fuel the car. You could argue that home charging infrastructure is a part of the cost of an electric car, sure, but if you're going to include that in the cost of the electric car, why not include the total cost of ownership for the ICE car as well (oil-changes, tuneups, emissions tests, etc.)? This article feels biased against EVs by only including additional costs of ownership for EVs and ignoring costs for ICs. Also, high-voltage chargers for our home or commercial chargers on the road would be completely unnecessary for my family. We drive infrequently enough that an extension cord snaked to our driveway would be plenty of power.
- somerandomqaguy 3y ago
  > First, they amortize the cost of home charging infrastructure over 5 years, but personally, that's not how I think about those costs. When I'm comparing prices between cars, I'm considering the home charging as a one-time upfront cost. Once I've paid that cost it's not part of my ongoing costs to fuel the car. Eeeehhhhhh... I don't think it's unfair. The way I think of it would be capital cost to operating cost break even point. If it costs me $X install the equipment, but reduces my per distance operating costs, eventually at some point in the saved operating costs will overtake the initial upfront costs and you're outright saving money. Until that point through you're still technically behind in what you paid though. I do think it's really weird to try and include it in a per KM operating costs as they did though. That's about as twisted up as Tesla saying the real cost of a car is the purchase price - the gas you don't burn price. But at the same time, ignoring the cost of it is also weird to me as well if you want to talk about total cost of ownership. Once you've hit that break even, sure, but until then, eh.
frob 3y ago
This doesn't actually compare marginal costs. It factors in fixed costs like the cost of the charger for the EV amortized over five years. It counts road taxes for both types of vehicles, but road taxes are marginal for gas vehicles and fixed for electric ones. It doesn't count the additional marginal costs of maintaining an ICE vehicle over an EV. And all of the taxes come from Michigan, which is one of those states that charge EV and hybrid owners extra to register and have lower gas prices than the rest of the country. I'm almost certain this would give a different result closer to the coasts. This overall study feels like statistical cherry-picking to eeek out a marginal result.

tony_cannistra 3y ago

Sorry, that's not the correct link. Although that link describes the methodology and data sources, that is the version from 2022. The 2023 source is https://www.andersoneconomicgroup.com/many-gas-powered-cars-cheaper-to-fuel-than-electric-in-2023/ https://www.andersoneconomicgroup.com/many-gas-powered-cars-....

jkubicek 3y ago
Thanks, updated
thatfrenchguy 3y ago
Their data is smelly, from a quick computation from EPA.gov ( https://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/Find.do?action=sbs&id=46356&id=45750&id=45751 https://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/Find.do?action=sbs&id=46356&... ): a Nissan Versa gets so ~2.9 gallons for 100 miles, a Bolt 29kWh / 100 miles, at $5.025 a gallon (current California gas rates) and $0.26 a kWh (PG&E rate) that'd be ~$14.6 vs ~$7.26. If you compare instead in Texas at ~$3.4 a gallon / $0.14 a kWh, $9.86 / $4.06.
- Vvector 3y ago
  The study also adds in "deadhead" time and miles required to drive to/from commercial chargers. It also calculates 12 hours/month waiting for the charger at $33/hour, so $400 extra a month.

jkubicek 3y ago

After reading the summary I linked to and browsing through the source PDF, I don't think these cost comparisons are fair or reasonable. First, they amortize the cost of home charging infrastructure over 5 years, but personally, that's not how I think about those costs. When I'm comparing prices between cars, I'm considering the home charging as a one-time upfront cost. Once I've paid that cost it's not part of my ongoing costs to fuel the car. You could argue that home charging infrastructure is a part of the cost of an electric car, sure, but if you're going to include that in the cost of the electric car, why not include the total cost of ownership for the ICE car as well (oil-changes, tuneups, emissions tests, etc.)? This article feels biased against EVs by only including additional costs of ownership for EVs and ignoring costs for ICs. Also, high-voltage chargers for our home or commercial chargers on the road would be completely unnecessary for my family. We drive infrequently enough that an extension cord snaked to our driveway would be plenty of power.

somerandomqaguy 3y ago
> First, they amortize the cost of home charging infrastructure over 5 years, but personally, that's not how I think about those costs. When I'm comparing prices between cars, I'm considering the home charging as a one-time upfront cost. Once I've paid that cost it's not part of my ongoing costs to fuel the car. Eeeehhhhhh... I don't think it's unfair. The way I think of it would be capital cost to operating cost break even point. If it costs me $X install the equipment, but reduces my per distance operating costs, eventually at some point in the saved operating costs will overtake the initial upfront costs and you're outright saving money. Until that point through you're still technically behind in what you paid though. I do think it's really weird to try and include it in a per KM operating costs as they did though. That's about as twisted up as Tesla saying the real cost of a car is the purchase price - the gas you don't burn price. But at the same time, ignoring the cost of it is also weird to me as well if you want to talk about total cost of ownership. Once you've hit that break even, sure, but until then, eh.

frob 3y ago

This doesn't actually compare marginal costs. It factors in fixed costs like the cost of the charger for the EV amortized over five years. It counts road taxes for both types of vehicles, but road taxes are marginal for gas vehicles and fixed for electric ones. It doesn't count the additional marginal costs of maintaining an ICE vehicle over an EV. And all of the taxes come from Michigan, which is one of those states that charge EV and hybrid owners extra to register and have lower gas prices than the rest of the country. I'm almost certain this would give a different result closer to the coasts. This overall study feels like statistical cherry-picking to eeek out a marginal result.