5 ms·

If you job can be done 100% remotely it can also be done in India.

by rhuru 3y ago

stephenr 3y ago
I've worked 100% remotely for a decade and a half. Some of that time even working with gasp Indians.
PartiallyTyped 3y ago
Then why isn't it done there?
lowbloodsugar 3y ago
Having worked with teams in India I would disagree. Biggest issue was timezone.
- Phelinofist 3y ago
  I have three guys living in India in my team and the timezone difference from IST to CE(S)T is not really in issue. We have a standup every second Monday from 10-11am CE(S)T and if other meetings with them are required I schedule them between 9am and 2pm and they get preference for that time over Europe based members.
topato 3y ago
With, from my experience, a remarkable lack of quality or care. I don't know if it's cultural, but Indian workers often seem completely checked out of their work.
- alephnerd 3y ago
  Depends on how much you are paying. If your company is working with a contracting/consulting company (eg. Infosys, TCS) then you're not paying enough. Most of those consulting/contracting firms are trying to pay $3-8k/yr when market rate at Product Driven Companies across India is $20-50k/yr now. Even farming pays around $3-8k/yr (especially when factoring that farm income isn't taxed in India). Plenty of American companies are fine paying the true market rate (eg. With returnees from America, Canada, Germany, SG, etc) and haven't had those kinds of issues.
- rhuru 3y ago
  Well, it is like China, there are no rejects just varying levels of quality. It totally depends what kind of people you hire. Developers in India come in insane variety of things. People who only pretend to be coders to those who are exceptionally talented 20x engineers.
dudul 3y ago
It was tried before and it was a disaster. Things like culture and timezones kind of get in the way.
manuelabeledo 3y ago
Such a commonly parroted fallacy. This assumes that all the talent in the world has a cheaper, equally skilled counterpart in India. This is not true, and even if it was, why wouldn't talented Indians leave the country in search for better wages?
- alephnerd 3y ago
  > why wouldn't talented Indians leave the country in search for better wages 1. Living far away from your entire family sucks. You'll miss birthdays, weddings, funerals, and plenty of wholesome moments with family 2. The talent doesn't really leave India anymore. Product companies (both MNCs and Local) can pay $20-50k/yr now in India, which is roughly comparable to the rest of Eurasia. Working at top Western companies like Amazon, Google, MS, Oracle, etc means that your mid-career TC can hit $60-80k/yr. 3. Depending on the industry, this shift has already happened. In the Cybersecurity, Infrastructure, and Cloud space, other than the main CSPs, most hiring of talent is now in Israel and India due to the lack of training in kernel development, OS, networking, DBs, etc at American universities.
  - manuelabeledo 3y ago
    > In the Cybersecurity, Infrastructure, and Cloud space, other than the main CSPs, most hiring of talent is now in Israel and India due to the lack of training in kernel development, OS, networking, DBs, etc at American universities. Working in Cybersecurity for the past 6 years, based in the US. What you say is nowhere near accurate, and the reason why the landscape is still quite green in the US is simply because money.
    - alephnerd 3y ago
      Have you been able to hire US based developers with experience in eBPF, C/C++, XDP, Linux internals, K8s internals, and/or Go because we sure as shit haven't despite trying for almost half a decade. Our entire agent team is now split across Eastern Europe, Israel, and India for this very reason. P.S. We were offering market rate (TC $200-300k/yr) before calling it quits and hiring in Eastern Europe/Israel/India for a TC of $60-110k/yr.

If you job can be done 100% remotely it can also be done in India.

by rhuru 3y ago

If you job can be done 100% remotely it can also be done in India.

stephenr 3y ago

I've worked 100% remotely for a decade and a half. Some of that time even working with gasp Indians.

PartiallyTyped 3y ago

Then why isn't it done there?

lowbloodsugar 3y ago

Having worked with teams in India I would disagree. Biggest issue was timezone.

Phelinofist 3y ago
I have three guys living in India in my team and the timezone difference from IST to CE(S)T is not really in issue. We have a standup every second Monday from 10-11am CE(S)T and if other meetings with them are required I schedule them between 9am and 2pm and they get preference for that time over Europe based members.

topato 3y ago

With, from my experience, a remarkable lack of quality or care. I don't know if it's cultural, but Indian workers often seem completely checked out of their work.

alephnerd 3y ago
Depends on how much you are paying. If your company is working with a contracting/consulting company (eg. Infosys, TCS) then you're not paying enough. Most of those consulting/contracting firms are trying to pay $3-8k/yr when market rate at Product Driven Companies across India is $20-50k/yr now. Even farming pays around $3-8k/yr (especially when factoring that farm income isn't taxed in India). Plenty of American companies are fine paying the true market rate (eg. With returnees from America, Canada, Germany, SG, etc) and haven't had those kinds of issues.
rhuru 3y ago
Well, it is like China, there are no rejects just varying levels of quality. It totally depends what kind of people you hire. Developers in India come in insane variety of things. People who only pretend to be coders to those who are exceptionally talented 20x engineers.

dudul 3y ago

It was tried before and it was a disaster. Things like culture and timezones kind of get in the way.

manuelabeledo 3y ago

Such a commonly parroted fallacy. This assumes that all the talent in the world has a cheaper, equally skilled counterpart in India. This is not true, and even if it was, why wouldn't talented Indians leave the country in search for better wages?

alephnerd 3y ago
> why wouldn't talented Indians leave the country in search for better wages 1. Living far away from your entire family sucks. You'll miss birthdays, weddings, funerals, and plenty of wholesome moments with family 2. The talent doesn't really leave India anymore. Product companies (both MNCs and Local) can pay $20-50k/yr now in India, which is roughly comparable to the rest of Eurasia. Working at top Western companies like Amazon, Google, MS, Oracle, etc means that your mid-career TC can hit $60-80k/yr. 3. Depending on the industry, this shift has already happened. In the Cybersecurity, Infrastructure, and Cloud space, other than the main CSPs, most hiring of talent is now in Israel and India due to the lack of training in kernel development, OS, networking, DBs, etc at American universities.
- manuelabeledo 3y ago
  > In the Cybersecurity, Infrastructure, and Cloud space, other than the main CSPs, most hiring of talent is now in Israel and India due to the lack of training in kernel development, OS, networking, DBs, etc at American universities. Working in Cybersecurity for the past 6 years, based in the US. What you say is nowhere near accurate, and the reason why the landscape is still quite green in the US is simply because money.
  - alephnerd 3y ago
    Have you been able to hire US based developers with experience in eBPF, C/C++, XDP, Linux internals, K8s internals, and/or Go because we sure as shit haven't despite trying for almost half a decade. Our entire agent team is now split across Eastern Europe, Israel, and India for this very reason. P.S. We were offering market rate (TC $200-300k/yr) before calling it quits and hiring in Eastern Europe/Israel/India for a TC of $60-110k/yr.