5 ms·

AFAIK you should be able to request a copy of your data under EU regulations. But honestly, it freaks me out that Google might someday disable my account. Unli

by mrtksn 3y ago

AFAIK you should be able to request a copy of your data under EU regulations. But honestly, it freaks me out that Google might someday disable my account. Unlike the Apple stuff, Gmail is a gateway to all my internet stuff since 1st of April, 2004. Lately Apple is also trying to be that middleman and IMHO account blocking should be more like denying anything new but providing a clear path out or a clear path for re-activation. Another thing that I can't stand is the policy of not disclosing the reason for account blocking or rejection. This should be straight out illegal, it creates real stress and even trauma on people and I don't believe that the justification on making their job easier by hiding their methods to fight bad actors is a reasonable one. A number too small to show up in the analytics dashboard is someone very upset, maybe crying maybe going through life changing situation due to a glitch or bad design in the system. These things happen all the time and get resolved when gain traction in social media. The tech companies need to understand that they are dealing with real people and the outcomes of their actions are real and that's why they are paid so much in first place.

TimCTRL 3y ago
Shameless plug; I'm building FaangSupport[0] to try to solve this issue, did a Show HN[1] to try and get some feedback but It didn't get enough traction; Most Important Feedback I needed is whether my idea is even legal. But I believe we have to democratize accesss to customer support for Faang. [0] https://faangsupport.com https://faangsupport.com [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36899787 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36899787
- mschild 3y ago
  That's a pretty neat idea. Obviously might be a challenge to find enough volunteers and this is unfortunately really only a bandaid on the actual problem. Curious to know why you included a login with Google account though. Feels like they're particularly well known for disabling accounts.
  - TimCTRL 3y ago
    Thanks! And true, the service is only good if Fanng/Fortune500 employees signup. I agree, its only a bandaid because Faang needs to step-up to solve this. I think the only reason I added Login with google is that it's frictionless, just to enable users quickly setup accounts.
    - iLoveOncall 3y ago
      > the service is only good if Fanng/Fortune500 employees signup Make it a paid service. It's the only way it will work. People may be willing to spend a few minutes of their weekend or evening to help when it's a front-page post on HackerNews, but nobody will voluntarily waste their free time helping strangers at an industrial scale on what will end up being 99% stupid issues.
      - resolutebat 3y ago
        I would be very surprised if FAANGs permit their employees to moonlight like this.
        timdierks 3y ago
        I work for a FAANG and it's a violation of company policy for me to profit from privileges associated with my employment.
        TimCTRL 3y ago
        That's why I was wondering whether the service would be legal. Thanks
        iLoveOncall 3y ago
        Company policies aren't laws. Employees could be fired over it, but some would definitely take the risk, as they already do with providing mock interview services, moonlighting without receiving formal authorization, having 2 jobs, etc.
- felixgallo 3y ago
  not speaking for Amazon or any other FAANG entity, but one fun and important thing to do when thinking of an idea is to imagine the risks and downsides. For example, let's say someone uses your service to steal money or personal information from unwitting customers who think they're dealing with official 'FAANG support', or the bad actor provides erroneous information that ends up causing harm or death. Where do you think that open-ended liability would be assigned, were the legal system(s) to get involved? For another, let's assume for a moment that there's an unfilled demand for FAANG support. Most interesting support calls likely require customer identification and also, crucially, internal backend access (e.g. to account systems, server logs, billing systems, and so on). Your site will not have that capability. That limits you to the boring support calls, which might as well be a wiki or stackoverflow, raising the question of whether you were able to address this unfilled demand.
  - TimCTRL 3y ago
    Exactly, I did think of all this, especially about the Security implications of running such a service, another example, what happens when said Faang Employee leaves Faang and does not explicitly say so but keeps representing the former company. Thanks for your feedback. This is why I thought I should get feedback before coding further.
malepoon2 3y ago
> But honestly, it freaks me out that Google might someday disable my account. Then don't wait. There are plenty of alternatives such as Fastmail. You pay a small amount of money but you can talk to a human being if anything goes wrong. I also don't get why people put all their eggs in one basket. I'm so glad that my email, password manager, YouTube profile etc are not the same account.
- mrtksn 3y ago
  Switching is very hard, It's lot of work to go through all the things. Abandoning Gmail right now would be the same as Gmail disabling my account.
  - Gud 3y ago
    You set up mail forwarding today and eventually, in the span of just a few years you'll be free of Google.
    - LightBug1 3y ago
      But where is the current greener grass? I keep seeing fastmail here. Is that the best alternative right now?
      - Gud 3y ago
        The e-mail provider is less important. Just make sure it’s pointed to a domain you own
      - vel0city 3y ago
        I migrated some family email to Zoho the other day. There's a decent free tier and their email service alone is pretty cheap ($1/user/mo). For $1.25 you can get exchange activesync support as well.
  - nikanj 3y ago
    It’s much, much easier to change account details when you can still access the old email. Get your own domain for $20/year and you never have to worry about losing access again. You can always redirect your domain to a new email provider if something happens
spacechild1 3y ago
> But honestly, it freaks me out that Google might someday disable my account. Unlike the Apple stuff, Gmail is a gateway to all my internet stuff since 1st of April, 2004. Then don't use gmail? It is very much possible.
- eldaisfish 3y ago
  Something being possible is fine however this situation is becoming untenable and needs regulation ASAP. Google, apple et al have too much power and are involved in too many aspects of life. If they are borderline utilities, governments must regulate them so. situations like this have some legal recourse.
  - passwordoops 3y ago
    Get the US government agencies to enforce the anti trust laws that already exist, and poof! Problem solved. Alphabet would get broken up into seperate entities: Gmail, Google, YouTube, AdSense, etc, should all be different companies and your single source of life failure disappears
    - lannisterstark 3y ago
      >Alphabet would get broken up into seperate entities That doesn't necessarily solve the issue of having a sudden death round of Gmail dying would lock you out of a lot of services using 2FA email and/or "Login with Google."
EGreg 3y ago
I don't understand the netizens of HN sometimes. Can someone explain to me what is going on in their mind? On the one hand, they complain constantly about this or that centralized service that they are throughly dependent on, and admit to being terrified of that service doing something "unaligned" with their interests. A few days ago, it was Stripe, before that it was Twitter, Reddit, now it's Apple, Google, etc. They complain and throw their hands up in despair, and Cory Doctorow even recently coined the word "enshittification" showing that this will always happen to for-profit platfoms. And Google Chrome's new client attestation API has everyone freaking out. On the other hand, a lot of them gang up en masse on any decentralized and open alternative, especially Web3-related, that actually solves the problem technologically. They fight tooth and nail arguing that it isn't popular yet, and never should become. Because only centralized, government-regulated platforms that had years to become entrenched, are good, the rest is bad and should not belong on HN. So what is the alternative? Also this same group of people, seemingly, is totally nonchalant about the prospects of AI destroying human civilization, despite its own creators consistently giving that a 10-20% chance. They say that you shouldn't be worried so much. I just don't get this crowd, honestly. It seems like insanity. PS: It's not all people on HN, just the most activist and vocal ones, and the ones with the silent downvote button trigger finger with massive hyperthrophy from constant use.
- mrtksn 3y ago
  > Web3-related, that actually solves the problem technologically Is this true though? Sure, there are tech demos but people use the tech as a mean to the end(which is some content or interaction) and just because it works on technical level it doesn't mean that it fulfil the needs of the user. For example, if all the best stuff about LK-99 is on Twitter and Reddit, I'm going to be on Twitter and Reddit. Convenience? network effect? Does it matter? Also it's usually different people complaining about different stuff and as a result it's not a contradiction. We are not coordinated.
- onli 3y ago
  HN loves decentralized solutions. Talk about blogs, RSS, the old web, mashups and you get a lot of positive feedback. Also mastodon and matrix got a lot of coverage here, everything in the category of peertube. And encrypted alternatives to potential monopolies as well, Signal vs Whatsapp for example. But you are simply mistaken if you believe a bunch of obvious scams with not a single usecase bundled to one illegitimate buzzword is a decentralized solution, and of course the crowd here will see right through such bullshit. That web 3.0 scambubble never had a chance here.
kelnos 3y ago
> But honestly, it freaks me out that Google might someday disable my account. I moved my email to Fastmail over a year ago. I was able to do this easily because I used GSuite with a custom domain, so it was just a matter of updating MX records and moving my old mail. But it doesn't have to be a huge chore even if you have an @gmail.com email address. You can register a domain, and sign up with Fastmail (or some other mail provider where you are actually the customer and not the product), and move things slowly. Set up forwarding from your GMail account to your Fastmail account. Start using the new email address for new accounts. Slowly start changing the email addresses on old accounts. You don't need to do it all at once; just maybe set aside 15 minutes a day, or maybe an hour on a weekend, and gradually change things. Focus on the important things first, like financial accounts. Eventually you'll stop getting email that you care about through the GMail address. I'm now worried about my other Google-held data, like photos and documents. Some of them are backed up, but I still haven't made sure everything is.
JohnFen 3y ago
> it freaks me out that Google might someday disable my account. Any time you are utterly dependent on any provider, you are at risk. This is something I was taught about being in business, but it holds just as true for personal things. That you are nervous about this is entirely reasonable, and you should channel that nervousness into finding a way to reduce your exposure.
talkingtab 3y ago
You can at least download all your data from google. See this: https://support.google.com/accounts/answer/3024190?sjid=17694194692926446548-NA https://support.google.com/accounts/answer/3024190?sjid=1769... It might take a long time, but do it. Hey, I'm going to do it right now and I don't even use google that much!

by mrtksn 3y ago

TimCTRL 3y ago

Shameless plug; I'm building FaangSupport[0] to try to solve this issue, did a Show HN[1] to try and get some feedback but It didn't get enough traction; Most Important Feedback I needed is whether my idea is even legal. But I believe we have to democratize accesss to customer support for Faang. [0] https://faangsupport.com https://faangsupport.com [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36899787 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36899787

mschild 3y ago
That's a pretty neat idea. Obviously might be a challenge to find enough volunteers and this is unfortunately really only a bandaid on the actual problem. Curious to know why you included a login with Google account though. Feels like they're particularly well known for disabling accounts.
- TimCTRL 3y ago
  Thanks! And true, the service is only good if Fanng/Fortune500 employees signup. I agree, its only a bandaid because Faang needs to step-up to solve this. I think the only reason I added Login with google is that it's frictionless, just to enable users quickly setup accounts.
  - iLoveOncall 3y ago
    > the service is only good if Fanng/Fortune500 employees signup Make it a paid service. It's the only way it will work. People may be willing to spend a few minutes of their weekend or evening to help when it's a front-page post on HackerNews, but nobody will voluntarily waste their free time helping strangers at an industrial scale on what will end up being 99% stupid issues.
    - resolutebat 3y ago
      I would be very surprised if FAANGs permit their employees to moonlight like this.
      - timdierks 3y ago
        I work for a FAANG and it's a violation of company policy for me to profit from privileges associated with my employment.
        TimCTRL 3y ago
        That's why I was wondering whether the service would be legal. Thanks
        iLoveOncall 3y ago
        Company policies aren't laws. Employees could be fired over it, but some would definitely take the risk, as they already do with providing mock interview services, moonlighting without receiving formal authorization, having 2 jobs, etc.
felixgallo 3y ago
not speaking for Amazon or any other FAANG entity, but one fun and important thing to do when thinking of an idea is to imagine the risks and downsides. For example, let's say someone uses your service to steal money or personal information from unwitting customers who think they're dealing with official 'FAANG support', or the bad actor provides erroneous information that ends up causing harm or death. Where do you think that open-ended liability would be assigned, were the legal system(s) to get involved? For another, let's assume for a moment that there's an unfilled demand for FAANG support. Most interesting support calls likely require customer identification and also, crucially, internal backend access (e.g. to account systems, server logs, billing systems, and so on). Your site will not have that capability. That limits you to the boring support calls, which might as well be a wiki or stackoverflow, raising the question of whether you were able to address this unfilled demand.
- TimCTRL 3y ago
  Exactly, I did think of all this, especially about the Security implications of running such a service, another example, what happens when said Faang Employee leaves Faang and does not explicitly say so but keeps representing the former company. Thanks for your feedback. This is why I thought I should get feedback before coding further.

malepoon2 3y ago

> But honestly, it freaks me out that Google might someday disable my account. Then don't wait. There are plenty of alternatives such as Fastmail. You pay a small amount of money but you can talk to a human being if anything goes wrong. I also don't get why people put all their eggs in one basket. I'm so glad that my email, password manager, YouTube profile etc are not the same account.

mrtksn 3y ago
Switching is very hard, It's lot of work to go through all the things. Abandoning Gmail right now would be the same as Gmail disabling my account.
- Gud 3y ago
  You set up mail forwarding today and eventually, in the span of just a few years you'll be free of Google.
  - LightBug1 3y ago
    But where is the current greener grass? I keep seeing fastmail here. Is that the best alternative right now?
    - Gud 3y ago
      The e-mail provider is less important. Just make sure it’s pointed to a domain you own
    - vel0city 3y ago
      I migrated some family email to Zoho the other day. There's a decent free tier and their email service alone is pretty cheap ($1/user/mo). For $1.25 you can get exchange activesync support as well.
- nikanj 3y ago
  It’s much, much easier to change account details when you can still access the old email. Get your own domain for $20/year and you never have to worry about losing access again. You can always redirect your domain to a new email provider if something happens

spacechild1 3y ago

> But honestly, it freaks me out that Google might someday disable my account. Unlike the Apple stuff, Gmail is a gateway to all my internet stuff since 1st of April, 2004. Then don't use gmail? It is very much possible.

eldaisfish 3y ago
Something being possible is fine however this situation is becoming untenable and needs regulation ASAP. Google, apple et al have too much power and are involved in too many aspects of life. If they are borderline utilities, governments must regulate them so. situations like this have some legal recourse.
- passwordoops 3y ago
  Get the US government agencies to enforce the anti trust laws that already exist, and poof! Problem solved. Alphabet would get broken up into seperate entities: Gmail, Google, YouTube, AdSense, etc, should all be different companies and your single source of life failure disappears
  - lannisterstark 3y ago
    >Alphabet would get broken up into seperate entities That doesn't necessarily solve the issue of having a sudden death round of Gmail dying would lock you out of a lot of services using 2FA email and/or "Login with Google."

EGreg 3y ago

I don't understand the netizens of HN sometimes. Can someone explain to me what is going on in their mind? On the one hand, they complain constantly about this or that centralized service that they are throughly dependent on, and admit to being terrified of that service doing something "unaligned" with their interests. A few days ago, it was Stripe, before that it was Twitter, Reddit, now it's Apple, Google, etc. They complain and throw their hands up in despair, and Cory Doctorow even recently coined the word "enshittification" showing that this will always happen to for-profit platfoms. And Google Chrome's new client attestation API has everyone freaking out. On the other hand, a lot of them gang up en masse on any decentralized and open alternative, especially Web3-related, that actually solves the problem technologically. They fight tooth and nail arguing that it isn't popular yet, and never should become. Because only centralized, government-regulated platforms that had years to become entrenched, are good, the rest is bad and should not belong on HN. So what is the alternative? Also this same group of people, seemingly, is totally nonchalant about the prospects of AI destroying human civilization, despite its own creators consistently giving that a 10-20% chance. They say that you shouldn't be worried so much. I just don't get this crowd, honestly. It seems like insanity. PS: It's not all people on HN, just the most activist and vocal ones, and the ones with the silent downvote button trigger finger with massive hyperthrophy from constant use.

mrtksn 3y ago
> Web3-related, that actually solves the problem technologically Is this true though? Sure, there are tech demos but people use the tech as a mean to the end(which is some content or interaction) and just because it works on technical level it doesn't mean that it fulfil the needs of the user. For example, if all the best stuff about LK-99 is on Twitter and Reddit, I'm going to be on Twitter and Reddit. Convenience? network effect? Does it matter? Also it's usually different people complaining about different stuff and as a result it's not a contradiction. We are not coordinated.
onli 3y ago
HN loves decentralized solutions. Talk about blogs, RSS, the old web, mashups and you get a lot of positive feedback. Also mastodon and matrix got a lot of coverage here, everything in the category of peertube. And encrypted alternatives to potential monopolies as well, Signal vs Whatsapp for example. But you are simply mistaken if you believe a bunch of obvious scams with not a single usecase bundled to one illegitimate buzzword is a decentralized solution, and of course the crowd here will see right through such bullshit. That web 3.0 scambubble never had a chance here.

kelnos 3y ago

> But honestly, it freaks me out that Google might someday disable my account. I moved my email to Fastmail over a year ago. I was able to do this easily because I used GSuite with a custom domain, so it was just a matter of updating MX records and moving my old mail. But it doesn't have to be a huge chore even if you have an @gmail.com email address. You can register a domain, and sign up with Fastmail (or some other mail provider where you are actually the customer and not the product), and move things slowly. Set up forwarding from your GMail account to your Fastmail account. Start using the new email address for new accounts. Slowly start changing the email addresses on old accounts. You don't need to do it all at once; just maybe set aside 15 minutes a day, or maybe an hour on a weekend, and gradually change things. Focus on the important things first, like financial accounts. Eventually you'll stop getting email that you care about through the GMail address. I'm now worried about my other Google-held data, like photos and documents. Some of them are backed up, but I still haven't made sure everything is.

JohnFen 3y ago

> it freaks me out that Google might someday disable my account. Any time you are utterly dependent on any provider, you are at risk. This is something I was taught about being in business, but it holds just as true for personal things. That you are nervous about this is entirely reasonable, and you should channel that nervousness into finding a way to reduce your exposure.

talkingtab 3y ago

You can at least download all your data from google. See this: https://support.google.com/accounts/answer/3024190?sjid=17694194692926446548-NA https://support.google.com/accounts/answer/3024190?sjid=1769... It might take a long time, but do it. Hey, I'm going to do it right now and I don't even use google that much!