4 ms·

increased geopolitical tension

jacquesm 3y ago
That is an interesting observation and puts words to some thoughts that I've had: if it turns out that this is 'the real thing' and the patent holds up South Korea is suddenly a superpower.
- mjh2539 3y ago
  That doesn't follow at all. Lead and copper aren't exclusive to South Korea. The authors get prestige and the owners of whatever patents are granted get some money.
  - jacquesm 3y ago
    Of course they aren't. But patent owners get to set the terms under which their patents are licensed. It's not like the record business where there is a fixed deal and if you use someone's lyrics you know up front what it is going to cost you. Someone might not even want to do business with you at all...
    - consilient 3y ago
      > But patent owners get to set the terms under which their patents are licensed To private entities, sure. The US government can and will force you to grant them a license if necessary.
      - jacquesm 3y ago
        Yes, except that's the US government and the inventors here are in South Korea. I don't think the US would get away with declaring 'eminent domain' over something invented in a different country. They could choose to simply not honor the patent but that will open a massive can of worms, especially because a lot of this stuff depends on reciprocity: if your government doesn't honor our key patents, why should we do the reverse?
  - montecarl 3y ago
    Carbon, oxygen, hydrogen, nitrogen, phosphorus and sulfur make up the bulk of organic molecules and plenty of those are covered by world wide patents (drugs).
- dralley 3y ago
  Depends. This feels a bit like the Wright Brothers patenting wing warping. It's possible that innovation will happen so quickly that the original patents become worthless. Frankly there is also zero chance that the patents are respected by all parties (i.e. China), regardless.
  - jacquesm 3y ago
    Yes, that is a definite possibility.
- roboror 3y ago
  IP laws--should any even apply--won't prevent any state from using this material should the claims be proven true.
  - jacquesm 3y ago
    Of course it won't. But then I predict that there will be a massive impact on IP laws as a construct. Because this is the one that counts, if they don't work here they're doomed.
- brookst 3y ago
  I don't think you can patent a material, just the methods you use to produce it. And if this is the real thing, there are probably dramatically more efficient ways to produce than this first step.
  - jacquesm 3y ago
    I don't think you should be able to, but there is this story that I read a while ago that makes it seem like you can: https://www.nature.com/articles/35003008 https://www.nature.com/articles/35003008
- kallistisoft 3y ago
  If LK-99 turns out be a legit room temp superconductor I can't see traditional patent/IP rules applying to it. The value to our species to too high for a technology like that to be encumbered. I would think a very large lump sum payment to the patent holders would be sufficient to cover everyone's interest. Otherwise I fully expect every government in the world to simply ignore the patent and allow public/private use -- effectively invalidating the patent. There is existing precedent for this type of action: the US government seizing wireless patents during WW1 or the Indian government invalidating international patents on medication for the purpose of federal manufacturing.

That is an interesting observation and puts words to some thoughts that I've had: if it turns out that this is 'the real thing' and the patent holds up South Korea is suddenly a superpower.

mjh2539 3y ago
That doesn't follow at all. Lead and copper aren't exclusive to South Korea. The authors get prestige and the owners of whatever patents are granted get some money.
- jacquesm 3y ago
  Of course they aren't. But patent owners get to set the terms under which their patents are licensed. It's not like the record business where there is a fixed deal and if you use someone's lyrics you know up front what it is going to cost you. Someone might not even want to do business with you at all...
  - consilient 3y ago
    > But patent owners get to set the terms under which their patents are licensed To private entities, sure. The US government can and will force you to grant them a license if necessary.
    - jacquesm 3y ago
      Yes, except that's the US government and the inventors here are in South Korea. I don't think the US would get away with declaring 'eminent domain' over something invented in a different country. They could choose to simply not honor the patent but that will open a massive can of worms, especially because a lot of this stuff depends on reciprocity: if your government doesn't honor our key patents, why should we do the reverse?
- montecarl 3y ago
  Carbon, oxygen, hydrogen, nitrogen, phosphorus and sulfur make up the bulk of organic molecules and plenty of those are covered by world wide patents (drugs).
dralley 3y ago
Depends. This feels a bit like the Wright Brothers patenting wing warping. It's possible that innovation will happen so quickly that the original patents become worthless. Frankly there is also zero chance that the patents are respected by all parties (i.e. China), regardless.
- jacquesm 3y ago
  Yes, that is a definite possibility.
roboror 3y ago
IP laws--should any even apply--won't prevent any state from using this material should the claims be proven true.
- jacquesm 3y ago
  Of course it won't. But then I predict that there will be a massive impact on IP laws as a construct. Because this is the one that counts, if they don't work here they're doomed.
brookst 3y ago
I don't think you can patent a material, just the methods you use to produce it. And if this is the real thing, there are probably dramatically more efficient ways to produce than this first step.
- jacquesm 3y ago
  I don't think you should be able to, but there is this story that I read a while ago that makes it seem like you can: https://www.nature.com/articles/35003008 https://www.nature.com/articles/35003008
kallistisoft 3y ago
If LK-99 turns out be a legit room temp superconductor I can't see traditional patent/IP rules applying to it. The value to our species to too high for a technology like that to be encumbered. I would think a very large lump sum payment to the patent holders would be sufficient to cover everyone's interest. Otherwise I fully expect every government in the world to simply ignore the patent and allow public/private use -- effectively invalidating the patent. There is existing precedent for this type of action: the US government seizing wireless patents during WW1 or the Indian government invalidating international patents on medication for the purpose of federal manufacturing.