5 ms·

Certainly no expert here but if you take the original video and replications at face value it does exhibit strong diamagnetism at room temperature. Superconduct

Certainly no expert here but if you take the original video and replications at face value it does exhibit strong diamagnetism at room temperature. Superconductors are diamagnetic due to the Meissner effect at their superconducting temperature. This would mean LK99 is a superconductor at low temperature and separately be strongly diamagnetic at room temperature (no Meissner effect if it's not super conducting). Would that be unusual?

jacquesm 3y ago
It's all unusual because it is uncharted territory. My guess would be assuming that it all pans out that this is due to various impurities and that it will take a while before we have a sample that is pure enough that all of these properties can be nailed down for good. What's strange is that drop at higher temps, that's either a measurement anomaly or something really odd.
- adolph 3y ago
  > due to various impurities and that it will take a while before we have a sample that is pure enough that all of these properties can be nailed down for good. Do you think it will be "purity" or understanding material variance/specific impurity? It reminds me of Fogbank, the nuke material claimed to be "so secret they forgot how to make it." Part of the story of manufacturing difficulty was due to increased purity of modern materials/processes. In a bizarre twist, the new production facility and reverse-engineered production process yielded a version of Fogbank that was of a higher purity than it had been in the past, according to the article. The problem, however, was that for Fogbank to work as intended in existing warhead designs, that previous level of impurity was actually essential. NNSA had to revise the process to ensure the final product was just as impure. https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/32867/fogbank-is-mysterious-material-used-in-nukes-thats-so-secret-nobody-can-say-what-it-is https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/32867/fogbank-is-myste...
  - jacquesm 3y ago
    > Do you think it will be "purity" or understanding material variance/specific impurity? It could be either. As I pointed out in other comments, that's how radioactivity was discovered and it is very well possible that they blundered into something exceptional by accident, it is also possible that both parties got it wrong and there are yet other effects at play (see the big gap in the t/R curve, that really needs explaining).
  - hyperman1 3y ago
    It reminds me of Max Gergel's Isopropyl bromide book: When Hildebrand ran the baths the silver came out bright, and stuck to the objects; the minute he left troubles started. No one knew why. Shortly before he left to go into the antique business in Charleston he showed me the secret. It was his chewing tobacco, spat into the bath from time to time. From then on, one man in each shift chewed, and the problem was solved
    - alephnerd 3y ago
      What's the name of this book? It sounds really cool! Any other recommendations on books about the history of MatSE/Chemistry?
      - grandpa 3y ago
        The title is "Excuse me sir, would you like to buy a kilo of isopropyl bromide?" https://archive.org/details/gergel_isopropyl_bromide https://archive.org/details/gergel_isopropyl_bromide
        alephnerd 3y ago
        Thanks for the rec! Gunna dive into it tonight!
        jacquesm 3y ago
        That's a hilarious book: "There was a jar which I had not noticed before containing potassium metal. I knew that potassium was a silvery metal, but this was one inch spheres, green with the oil in which they were immersed. I removed two for a collection of elements we were starting at Columbia High, scraped off the oil and put the marbles in my handkerchief which I added to a collection of miscellaneous glassware in my back pocket. " Oops... I can see where that is headed.
      - jeremiahbuckley 3y ago
        Oh man, you are in for a treat! This was a terrific read even though I probably only understood 1/3rd of it. Ignition! By John D. Clark https://www.amazon.com/Ignition-audiobook/dp/B07CTW1M9D/ref=mp_s_a_1_1?crid=3GDUUUD5ERNNJ&keywords=ignition+book&qid=1691022984&sprefix=ignition+book%2Caps%2C92&sr=8-1 https://www.amazon.com/Ignition-audiobook/dp/B07CTW1M9D/ref=... Or, maybe you’ve already read it, in which case: great job. Maybe someone else will see this comment and enjoy it. I don’t want to spoil if for you, but I loved the last paragraph. I believe a new heroic age for the field is dawning.
- lambdasquirrel 3y ago
  According to wikipedia, that was observed by the original team in Korea. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LK-99#Replication_attempts https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LK-99#Replication_attempts > Claimed to have synthesized LK-99 and to have measured superconductivity up to a temperature of 110 kelvin. Claimed to have observed an abrupt drop in resistance between ~300K and 220K, aligning with the Korean LKK team's results. Claimed to have confirmed structural consistency with x-ray diffraction.
  - jacquesm 3y ago
    Yes, but it does not drop nearly as far and there is the suggestion of equipment malfunction while at the same time that gear seems to work just fine around -110 C.
  - pama 3y ago
    Just a word of caution that Wikipedia entries around LK99 are unusually poor at this point in time. The citation of an attempt to publish it in Nature in 2020 is completely made up when the original Korean only mentions in passing a completely different paper that was withdrawn from Nature at the time. I hope the understandable excitement around this new invention will allow for a correct eventual accounting of the events.
scarmig 3y ago
Bismuth is a strong diamagnet, and it can enter a superconducting state (at a fraction of a degree above zero), so it's not impossible. (And lots of materials are weak diamagnets and superconduct at some point.) So it wouldn't be unheard of. That said, LK-99 would definitely be an object of lots of research if it does have those properties.
Workaccount2 3y ago
I have seen it posted that diamagnetic materials require multiple magnets stuck together to create field "pockets" (?) for the material to rest in. The few videos of lk99 show it reacting to a singular magnet. A property of superconductors that apparently diamagnetic materials don't have.
- DistractionRect 3y ago
  That's for levitating a diamagnetic material. It'll react fine to a singular magnet, it just won't be stable enough to levitate - that's why the videos show casing replication of diamagnetism show it standing on end.
- uyhgr 3y ago
  The term is “flux pinning”, and it only applies to the “quantum lock” effect. That is the specifically static hovering effect. The diamagnetism, importantly this means repulsion of both poles simultaneously and equally (this is how you can have these magnets spin, a regular magnet repels same poles and attracts opposites, diamagnets repel both poles), is simply a characteristic of the superconductor, but it alone would just repel the object off. Here is a timestamped link to NileRed’s YBCO video that visually describes the flux pinning: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=RS7gyZJg5nc&t=1887 https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=RS7gyZJg5nc&t=1887 And here’s a timestamped link to Ben Krasnow’s Applied Science YBCO video where he shows a close up of the crystal’s cross section that shows the imperfections that allow the magnetic field through for the pinning effect: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=sLFaa6RPJIU&t=75 https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=sLFaa6RPJIU&t=75
  - jacquesm 3y ago
    NileRed is youtube gold. It's one of very few channels that I follow and learn from.
    - faraggi 3y ago
      I agree, great channel, but the cadence in his narration is atrocious.
depereo 3y ago
I would say any results that are already out are from people speedrunning production; give it another six or so days and there will be a ton of labs that have managed to produce various, better samples and will have performed decent experimentation on these.
Obi_Juan_Kenobi 3y ago
The premise is flawed because that assumes the samples they are studying are identical. Replication is difficult, and particularly difficult for novel processes where the important variables are not well understood. It could be that the methods were reported as accurately as possible but still leave out critical detail(s).
zamalek 3y ago
The strength of the diamagnetism would be extremely anomalous if it were not a superconductor, and would need new physics/names - super-diamagnetism or something (which itself would still be very useful). The chances of it being new physical phenomena is vanishingly small - we're almost definitely seeing superconductivity at STP with this degree of diamagnetism.
- tigershark 3y ago
  Exactly. And from the various videos it doesn’t seem diamagnetic at all because it floats in a stationary way on a single planar magnet. Diamagnetic material can’t do that, they need an array of magnets.

jacquesm 3y ago

It's all unusual because it is uncharted territory. My guess would be assuming that it all pans out that this is due to various impurities and that it will take a while before we have a sample that is pure enough that all of these properties can be nailed down for good. What's strange is that drop at higher temps, that's either a measurement anomaly or something really odd.

adolph 3y ago
> due to various impurities and that it will take a while before we have a sample that is pure enough that all of these properties can be nailed down for good. Do you think it will be "purity" or understanding material variance/specific impurity? It reminds me of Fogbank, the nuke material claimed to be "so secret they forgot how to make it." Part of the story of manufacturing difficulty was due to increased purity of modern materials/processes. In a bizarre twist, the new production facility and reverse-engineered production process yielded a version of Fogbank that was of a higher purity than it had been in the past, according to the article. The problem, however, was that for Fogbank to work as intended in existing warhead designs, that previous level of impurity was actually essential. NNSA had to revise the process to ensure the final product was just as impure. https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/32867/fogbank-is-mysterious-material-used-in-nukes-thats-so-secret-nobody-can-say-what-it-is https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/32867/fogbank-is-myste...
- jacquesm 3y ago
  > Do you think it will be "purity" or understanding material variance/specific impurity? It could be either. As I pointed out in other comments, that's how radioactivity was discovered and it is very well possible that they blundered into something exceptional by accident, it is also possible that both parties got it wrong and there are yet other effects at play (see the big gap in the t/R curve, that really needs explaining).
- hyperman1 3y ago
  It reminds me of Max Gergel's Isopropyl bromide book: When Hildebrand ran the baths the silver came out bright, and stuck to the objects; the minute he left troubles started. No one knew why. Shortly before he left to go into the antique business in Charleston he showed me the secret. It was his chewing tobacco, spat into the bath from time to time. From then on, one man in each shift chewed, and the problem was solved
  - alephnerd 3y ago
    What's the name of this book? It sounds really cool! Any other recommendations on books about the history of MatSE/Chemistry?
    - grandpa 3y ago
      The title is "Excuse me sir, would you like to buy a kilo of isopropyl bromide?" https://archive.org/details/gergel_isopropyl_bromide https://archive.org/details/gergel_isopropyl_bromide
      - alephnerd 3y ago
        Thanks for the rec! Gunna dive into it tonight!
      - jacquesm 3y ago
        That's a hilarious book: "There was a jar which I had not noticed before containing potassium metal. I knew that potassium was a silvery metal, but this was one inch spheres, green with the oil in which they were immersed. I removed two for a collection of elements we were starting at Columbia High, scraped off the oil and put the marbles in my handkerchief which I added to a collection of miscellaneous glassware in my back pocket. " Oops... I can see where that is headed.
    - jeremiahbuckley 3y ago
      Oh man, you are in for a treat! This was a terrific read even though I probably only understood 1/3rd of it. Ignition! By John D. Clark https://www.amazon.com/Ignition-audiobook/dp/B07CTW1M9D/ref=mp_s_a_1_1?crid=3GDUUUD5ERNNJ&keywords=ignition+book&qid=1691022984&sprefix=ignition+book%2Caps%2C92&sr=8-1 https://www.amazon.com/Ignition-audiobook/dp/B07CTW1M9D/ref=... Or, maybe you’ve already read it, in which case: great job. Maybe someone else will see this comment and enjoy it. I don’t want to spoil if for you, but I loved the last paragraph. I believe a new heroic age for the field is dawning.
lambdasquirrel 3y ago
According to wikipedia, that was observed by the original team in Korea. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LK-99#Replication_attempts https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LK-99#Replication_attempts > Claimed to have synthesized LK-99 and to have measured superconductivity up to a temperature of 110 kelvin. Claimed to have observed an abrupt drop in resistance between ~300K and 220K, aligning with the Korean LKK team's results. Claimed to have confirmed structural consistency with x-ray diffraction.
- jacquesm 3y ago
  Yes, but it does not drop nearly as far and there is the suggestion of equipment malfunction while at the same time that gear seems to work just fine around -110 C.
- pama 3y ago
  Just a word of caution that Wikipedia entries around LK99 are unusually poor at this point in time. The citation of an attempt to publish it in Nature in 2020 is completely made up when the original Korean only mentions in passing a completely different paper that was withdrawn from Nature at the time. I hope the understandable excitement around this new invention will allow for a correct eventual accounting of the events.

scarmig 3y ago

Bismuth is a strong diamagnet, and it can enter a superconducting state (at a fraction of a degree above zero), so it's not impossible. (And lots of materials are weak diamagnets and superconduct at some point.) So it wouldn't be unheard of. That said, LK-99 would definitely be an object of lots of research if it does have those properties.

Workaccount2 3y ago

I have seen it posted that diamagnetic materials require multiple magnets stuck together to create field "pockets" (?) for the material to rest in. The few videos of lk99 show it reacting to a singular magnet. A property of superconductors that apparently diamagnetic materials don't have.

DistractionRect 3y ago
That's for levitating a diamagnetic material. It'll react fine to a singular magnet, it just won't be stable enough to levitate - that's why the videos show casing replication of diamagnetism show it standing on end.
uyhgr 3y ago
The term is “flux pinning”, and it only applies to the “quantum lock” effect. That is the specifically static hovering effect. The diamagnetism, importantly this means repulsion of both poles simultaneously and equally (this is how you can have these magnets spin, a regular magnet repels same poles and attracts opposites, diamagnets repel both poles), is simply a characteristic of the superconductor, but it alone would just repel the object off. Here is a timestamped link to NileRed’s YBCO video that visually describes the flux pinning: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=RS7gyZJg5nc&t=1887 https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=RS7gyZJg5nc&t=1887 And here’s a timestamped link to Ben Krasnow’s Applied Science YBCO video where he shows a close up of the crystal’s cross section that shows the imperfections that allow the magnetic field through for the pinning effect: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=sLFaa6RPJIU&t=75 https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=sLFaa6RPJIU&t=75
- jacquesm 3y ago
  NileRed is youtube gold. It's one of very few channels that I follow and learn from.
  - faraggi 3y ago
    I agree, great channel, but the cadence in his narration is atrocious.

depereo 3y ago

I would say any results that are already out are from people speedrunning production; give it another six or so days and there will be a ton of labs that have managed to produce various, better samples and will have performed decent experimentation on these.

Obi_Juan_Kenobi 3y ago

The premise is flawed because that assumes the samples they are studying are identical. Replication is difficult, and particularly difficult for novel processes where the important variables are not well understood. It could be that the methods were reported as accurately as possible but still leave out critical detail(s).

zamalek 3y ago

The strength of the diamagnetism would be extremely anomalous if it were not a superconductor, and would need new physics/names - super-diamagnetism or something (which itself would still be very useful). The chances of it being new physical phenomena is vanishingly small - we're almost definitely seeing superconductivity at STP with this degree of diamagnetism.

tigershark 3y ago
Exactly. And from the various videos it doesn’t seem diamagnetic at all because it floats in a stationary way on a single planar magnet. Diamagnetic material can’t do that, they need an array of magnets.