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Have a look at the FIRE community and see how difficult it can be to create meaning and a fulfilling life. Also, the COVID lockdowns gave us a glimpse at "noth

by WA 3y ago

Have a look at the FIRE community and see how difficult it can be to create meaning and a fulfilling life. Also, the COVID lockdowns gave us a glimpse at "nothing to do". Finding meaning is pretty hard for many people, especially if you can drown any form of boredom in endless consumption of shows, video games and social media.

greedo 3y ago
So people should just find false meaning in bullshit jobs?
- WA 3y ago
  Not necessarily, but every bullshit job pays the bills and most of them give at least a social context and a form of identification. Finding meaning is simply less important than having food on the table and a social circle, even if it’s just the watercooler talk with colleagues. Not saying it’s impossible to find meaning outside of employment, but my observation and experience is that it’s not as easy as "stop working bullshit jobs and you will find meaning easily".
  - banannaise 3y ago
    > but every bullshit job pays the bills This completely discards the premise. We're talking about a hypothetical world where we don't need work from people, and where it would make very little sense to require meaningless work in exchange for having your needs met. (We're also talking about the actual present world, where we don't need nearly as much work as we're forcing people to do, so the above should still be partially true, but it really isn't.)
OkayPhysicist 3y ago
The COVID lockdowns primarily demonstrated the despair found in the lack of meaningful socialization.
shanusmagnus 3y ago
FIRE is a good cautionary example, but I think it makes the point I wanted to get at: people start out as little meaning-making machines. They connect deeply with each other, interact easily, enjoy their lives. Then we ruin that. The FIRE community have won the ruined game -- they're what you get when you remove the financial need, but keep the same psychological objective function, keep the same screwed-up sociality. They might be lounging by the pool but they're still stuck in the old mode of being. The ones who transcend the old workday-grind-mode are doing great. But that's non-trivial. There was a really good article on this that I found recently ... Ah yes, here it is [1]. This is a thought-provoking take on a similar topic. [1] https://charleseisenstein.substack.com/p/notes-on-privilege https://charleseisenstein.substack.com/p/notes-on-privilege
- EVa5I7bHFq9mnYK 3y ago
  >> They connect deeply with each other, interact easily, enjoy their lives. looks like someone under influence :)
  - shanusmagnus 3y ago
    Haha, yeah, that's not a bad comparison. Adults intoxicated to a helpful degree behave kind of like children before the modern world grinds away their joy.

by WA 3y ago

greedo 3y ago

So people should just find false meaning in bullshit jobs?

WA 3y ago
Not necessarily, but every bullshit job pays the bills and most of them give at least a social context and a form of identification. Finding meaning is simply less important than having food on the table and a social circle, even if it’s just the watercooler talk with colleagues. Not saying it’s impossible to find meaning outside of employment, but my observation and experience is that it’s not as easy as "stop working bullshit jobs and you will find meaning easily".
- banannaise 3y ago
  > but every bullshit job pays the bills This completely discards the premise. We're talking about a hypothetical world where we don't need work from people, and where it would make very little sense to require meaningless work in exchange for having your needs met. (We're also talking about the actual present world, where we don't need nearly as much work as we're forcing people to do, so the above should still be partially true, but it really isn't.)

OkayPhysicist 3y ago

The COVID lockdowns primarily demonstrated the despair found in the lack of meaningful socialization.

shanusmagnus 3y ago

FIRE is a good cautionary example, but I think it makes the point I wanted to get at: people start out as little meaning-making machines. They connect deeply with each other, interact easily, enjoy their lives. Then we ruin that. The FIRE community have won the ruined game -- they're what you get when you remove the financial need, but keep the same psychological objective function, keep the same screwed-up sociality. They might be lounging by the pool but they're still stuck in the old mode of being. The ones who transcend the old workday-grind-mode are doing great. But that's non-trivial. There was a really good article on this that I found recently ... Ah yes, here it is [1]. This is a thought-provoking take on a similar topic. [1] https://charleseisenstein.substack.com/p/notes-on-privilege https://charleseisenstein.substack.com/p/notes-on-privilege

EVa5I7bHFq9mnYK 3y ago
>> They connect deeply with each other, interact easily, enjoy their lives. looks like someone under influence :)
- shanusmagnus 3y ago
  Haha, yeah, that's not a bad comparison. Adults intoxicated to a helpful degree behave kind of like children before the modern world grinds away their joy.