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I think caring about ESG, and especially evaluating a company's governance, is important. But I don't know how much I really want BlackRock and Vanguard to be

I think caring about ESG, and especially evaluating a company's governance, is important. But I don't know how much I really want BlackRock and Vanguard to be the ones doing the scoring...

zmgsabst 3y ago
I agree: - caring about your investments aligning with your values is good - investment firms violating civil rights laws and promoting fashionable bigotry using retirement funds to coerce companies into self-destructive behavior is bad
- jquery 3y ago
  Why are you prefixing bigotry with "fashionable"? Seems like a shibboleth. The only "fashionable" bigotry I can think of right now is anti-trans bigotry, but I don't see how that links to the rest of your statement.
  - networkchad 3y ago
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  - undefinedland 3y ago
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    - jamathon 3y ago
      These type of statements are considered "anti-trans": > people with obvious mental problems akin to anorexia > allow people to invade opposite gender areas such as toilets or sport or any number of other arenas of life > when people ignore reality At least, that's what I've been told when I express similar concerns.
      - undefinedland 3y ago
        [dead]
        jamathon 3y ago
        I agree, I see "anti-trans" and accusations of being "transphobic" typically used as a silencing tactic, to stymie and derail discussion. But these issues really do need to be discussed, as there is real-world harm arising from these medical interventions, and from the non-consensual redrawing of the boundaries around single-sex spaces. I think you're spot on with your comparison to attitudes towards FGM, it really does highlight the double standard.
        undefinedland 3y ago
        I wish you luck in convincing those around you to see sanity. It's difficult but better than the alternative.
legitster 3y ago
I find it hilarious the kind of conspiracy theories people lob at BlackRock and Vanguard. BlackRock maybe I can maybe understand, but Vanguard is like the most straightforward boring investment company in the world. It's literally a shareholder co-op for passive investment funds. People have no idea what they are talking about.
- local_issues 3y ago
  My favorite Vanguard fact is their HQ. It's a shitty set of lowrise buildings in suburban Philly - not some massive highrise in Manhattan or JC. Their whole thing is automation and saving money. https://www.google.com/maps/place/Vanguard/@40.0513614,-75.5060218,908m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m6!3m5!1s0x89c692c8eb75c5b5:0x4ab0966036e93d0d!8m2!3d40.0521812!4d-75.5006942!16s%2Fg%2F1tfg8mkh?entry=ttu https://www.google.com/maps/place/Vanguard/@40.0513614,-75.5... BlackRock? Different story, but Vanguard? Comeon.
  - legitster 3y ago
    Honestly, I love Vanguard. Their whole shtick was to take the piss out of investment management - "here - we'll just give you a share in anything and you can keep the money". And I appreciate that they have stuck to their principles and kept the thrifty Kirkland Signature vibes.
- CameronNemo 3y ago
  How is ESG passive investment?
  - legitster 3y ago
    In most cases the are not! If you buy an S&P 500 Index you are not buying an ESG fund at all. For a fund to be passive, all you are saying is that you are following pre-set rules for that fund. And there are any number of investment products these companies make and offer that use any sort of pre-set criteria. You can take a look at one of Vanguards (few) ESG index funds and their criteria are very clearly presented at the bottom of the page: https://investor.vanguard.com/investment-products/mutual-funds/profile/vftax https://investor.vanguard.com/investment-products/mutual-fun...
Xeamek 3y ago
Black Rock does NOT own the world, here is why: https://youtu.be/NzKOVVvDGhE?si=Xhog1L_VRtzMsaQ6 https://youtu.be/NzKOVVvDGhE?si=Xhog1L_VRtzMsaQ6
- Exoristos 3y ago
  If you have to have YouTube explainers "proving" you're not evil, you're probably evil.
- fallingknife 3y ago
  Correct. But they do get to vote the shares.

I think caring about ESG, and especially evaluating a company's governance, is important. But I don't know how much I really want BlackRock and Vanguard to be the ones doing the scoring...

zmgsabst 3y ago

I agree: - caring about your investments aligning with your values is good - investment firms violating civil rights laws and promoting fashionable bigotry using retirement funds to coerce companies into self-destructive behavior is bad

jquery 3y ago
Why are you prefixing bigotry with "fashionable"? Seems like a shibboleth. The only "fashionable" bigotry I can think of right now is anti-trans bigotry, but I don't see how that links to the rest of your statement.
- networkchad 3y ago
  [dead]
- undefinedland 3y ago
  [dead]
  - jamathon 3y ago
    These type of statements are considered "anti-trans": > people with obvious mental problems akin to anorexia > allow people to invade opposite gender areas such as toilets or sport or any number of other arenas of life > when people ignore reality At least, that's what I've been told when I express similar concerns.
    - undefinedland 3y ago
      [dead]
      - jamathon 3y ago
        I agree, I see "anti-trans" and accusations of being "transphobic" typically used as a silencing tactic, to stymie and derail discussion. But these issues really do need to be discussed, as there is real-world harm arising from these medical interventions, and from the non-consensual redrawing of the boundaries around single-sex spaces. I think you're spot on with your comparison to attitudes towards FGM, it really does highlight the double standard.
        undefinedland 3y ago
        I wish you luck in convincing those around you to see sanity. It's difficult but better than the alternative.

legitster 3y ago

I find it hilarious the kind of conspiracy theories people lob at BlackRock and Vanguard. BlackRock maybe I can maybe understand, but Vanguard is like the most straightforward boring investment company in the world. It's literally a shareholder co-op for passive investment funds. People have no idea what they are talking about.

local_issues 3y ago
My favorite Vanguard fact is their HQ. It's a shitty set of lowrise buildings in suburban Philly - not some massive highrise in Manhattan or JC. Their whole thing is automation and saving money. https://www.google.com/maps/place/Vanguard/@40.0513614,-75.5060218,908m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m6!3m5!1s0x89c692c8eb75c5b5:0x4ab0966036e93d0d!8m2!3d40.0521812!4d-75.5006942!16s%2Fg%2F1tfg8mkh?entry=ttu https://www.google.com/maps/place/Vanguard/@40.0513614,-75.5... BlackRock? Different story, but Vanguard? Comeon.
- legitster 3y ago
  Honestly, I love Vanguard. Their whole shtick was to take the piss out of investment management - "here - we'll just give you a share in anything and you can keep the money". And I appreciate that they have stuck to their principles and kept the thrifty Kirkland Signature vibes.
CameronNemo 3y ago
How is ESG passive investment?
- legitster 3y ago
  In most cases the are not! If you buy an S&P 500 Index you are not buying an ESG fund at all. For a fund to be passive, all you are saying is that you are following pre-set rules for that fund. And there are any number of investment products these companies make and offer that use any sort of pre-set criteria. You can take a look at one of Vanguards (few) ESG index funds and their criteria are very clearly presented at the bottom of the page: https://investor.vanguard.com/investment-products/mutual-funds/profile/vftax https://investor.vanguard.com/investment-products/mutual-fun...

Xeamek 3y ago

Black Rock does NOT own the world, here is why: https://youtu.be/NzKOVVvDGhE?si=Xhog1L_VRtzMsaQ6 https://youtu.be/NzKOVVvDGhE?si=Xhog1L_VRtzMsaQ6

Exoristos 3y ago
If you have to have YouTube explainers "proving" you're not evil, you're probably evil.
fallingknife 3y ago
Correct. But they do get to vote the shares.