3 ms·

I do think this project sounds scary and dystopian, but aren’t SSN’s effectively unalienable IDs?

afavour 3y ago
You could issue someone a new SSN. I know it rarely ever happens but it is certainly possible. Eyeball scans... less so.
- discodave 3y ago
  As a thought experiment, could a witness protection program (i.e. an arm of the government) issue a new/fake SSN? Yes. Could they change your retina? Maybe some surgery exists to do this, but it sounds risky/complicated!
  - taeric 3y ago
    This is somewhat weak with the argument here, though? The idea would be that you could get a new "world coin address," and I see no reason that couldn't be doable. That is, the thought experiment here is not that people interact with your retina identity, but with an address that has been confirmed to be associated with a living person. There will have to be ways to build "collective" groups in this landscape, as such there will have to be other webs of trust on top of it. Right? To be clear, I'm not convinced world coin is a good idea, but I'm not sure this is a clear take down of it?
- CrazyPyroLinux 3y ago
  See: Minority Report :)
SketchySeaBeast 3y ago
I would argue that in our current identity theft riddled world SSN's are as much a liability as anything. At some point they became used as both the id and the password.
soligern 3y ago
Absolutely not. There is nothing tying a number to your genetics.
- fsckboy 3y ago
  ok, but your genetics are a number (turns out 64 bits will not be enough)
pessimizer 3y ago
And also an unnecessary, bad idea. We don't need a special code to ration retirement. They were also, by law, not an identifier, because people then were smarter than people now. You can still refuse to give your SSN under any circumstance other than employment, and people cannot deny service based on that refusal.
landemva 3y ago
SSN is voluntary. USA passport application has a spot for SSN and it may be left blank or may accidentally contain rando numbers (I have done both). TSA full body scan is also voluntary, along with voluntary showing ID at their (Soviet era) checkpoints.
- subsaharancoder 3y ago
  > SSN is voluntary. USA passport application has a spot for SSN and it may be left blank or may accidentally contain rando numbers (I have done both). TSA full body scan is also voluntary, along with voluntary showing ID at their (Soviet era) checkpoints. I had to do a quick check on this TSA scan just to confirm that an opt out was possible, seems they changed the language back in 2015 https://www.dhs.gov/sites/default/files/publications/privacy-tsa-pia-32-d-ait.pdf https://www.dhs.gov/sites/default/files/publications/privacy... (page 3) to make it less optional. Basically it sounds like you can say NO, but they can override your NO for whatever reason.. "TSA is updating the AIT PIA to reflect a change to the operating protocol regarding the ability of individuals to opt out of AIT screening in favor of physical screening. While passengers may generally decline AIT screening in favor of physical screening, TSA may direct mandatory AIT screening for some passengers as warranted by security considerations in order to safeguard transportation security."
  - landemva 3y ago
    That is what Thousands Standing Around say, but it's not the law. And there are ADA considerations (hint). I have never done more than metal detector or massage, and have been 1K flier. A friend flies with no ID and a federal ankle bracelet. Also opts out of full body scan.
- walrus01 3y ago
  Unless you literally live in a wood shack in the forest like the Unabomber good luck existing in modern USA society without an SSN. I suppose you could probably do it if you inherited generational wealth and lived from birth to death only spending cash on things.
jrm4 3y ago
I'd say "effectively" is doing the heavy lifting here. Which is to say, we could undo that database if we wanted to. If society decided it collectively hated SSNs, the work to obscure that system, or to poison that well, would be far easier than with irises.

You could issue someone a new SSN. I know it rarely ever happens but it is certainly possible. Eyeball scans... less so.

discodave 3y ago
As a thought experiment, could a witness protection program (i.e. an arm of the government) issue a new/fake SSN? Yes. Could they change your retina? Maybe some surgery exists to do this, but it sounds risky/complicated!
- taeric 3y ago
  This is somewhat weak with the argument here, though? The idea would be that you could get a new "world coin address," and I see no reason that couldn't be doable. That is, the thought experiment here is not that people interact with your retina identity, but with an address that has been confirmed to be associated with a living person. There will have to be ways to build "collective" groups in this landscape, as such there will have to be other webs of trust on top of it. Right? To be clear, I'm not convinced world coin is a good idea, but I'm not sure this is a clear take down of it?
CrazyPyroLinux 3y ago
See: Minority Report :)

SketchySeaBeast 3y ago

I would argue that in our current identity theft riddled world SSN's are as much a liability as anything. At some point they became used as both the id and the password.

soligern 3y ago

Absolutely not. There is nothing tying a number to your genetics.

fsckboy 3y ago
ok, but your genetics are a number (turns out 64 bits will not be enough)

pessimizer 3y ago

And also an unnecessary, bad idea. We don't need a special code to ration retirement. They were also, by law, not an identifier, because people then were smarter than people now. You can still refuse to give your SSN under any circumstance other than employment, and people cannot deny service based on that refusal.

landemva 3y ago

SSN is voluntary. USA passport application has a spot for SSN and it may be left blank or may accidentally contain rando numbers (I have done both). TSA full body scan is also voluntary, along with voluntary showing ID at their (Soviet era) checkpoints.

subsaharancoder 3y ago
> SSN is voluntary. USA passport application has a spot for SSN and it may be left blank or may accidentally contain rando numbers (I have done both). TSA full body scan is also voluntary, along with voluntary showing ID at their (Soviet era) checkpoints. I had to do a quick check on this TSA scan just to confirm that an opt out was possible, seems they changed the language back in 2015 https://www.dhs.gov/sites/default/files/publications/privacy-tsa-pia-32-d-ait.pdf https://www.dhs.gov/sites/default/files/publications/privacy... (page 3) to make it less optional. Basically it sounds like you can say NO, but they can override your NO for whatever reason.. "TSA is updating the AIT PIA to reflect a change to the operating protocol regarding the ability of individuals to opt out of AIT screening in favor of physical screening. While passengers may generally decline AIT screening in favor of physical screening, TSA may direct mandatory AIT screening for some passengers as warranted by security considerations in order to safeguard transportation security."
- landemva 3y ago
  That is what Thousands Standing Around say, but it's not the law. And there are ADA considerations (hint). I have never done more than metal detector or massage, and have been 1K flier. A friend flies with no ID and a federal ankle bracelet. Also opts out of full body scan.
walrus01 3y ago
Unless you literally live in a wood shack in the forest like the Unabomber good luck existing in modern USA society without an SSN. I suppose you could probably do it if you inherited generational wealth and lived from birth to death only spending cash on things.

jrm4 3y ago

I'd say "effectively" is doing the heavy lifting here. Which is to say, we could undo that database if we wanted to. If society decided it collectively hated SSNs, the work to obscure that system, or to poison that well, would be far easier than with irises.