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Have your worked with the JVM since Java 8? Is memory util on servers still really a consideration in 2023 for most workloads if performance is otherwise good?

Have your worked with the JVM since Java 8? Is memory util on servers still really a consideration in 2023 for most workloads if performance is otherwise good? > If you can, avoid Java for anything that isn't a long running server process Isn't that the JVM's niche?

chriskrycho 3y ago
Memory utilization on servers is absolutely a consideration in 2023. At work, we're looking seriously at migrating some key parts of our infrastructure from Java to Rust precisely because of factor (as well as startup time, throughput).
- RhodesianHunter 3y ago
  As someone working on systems that handle trillions of message per day in Java, I find this hard to relate to. Is it bad code? Some critical infrastructure flaw? Misunderstanding of memory options settings or how they work in containers? Startup time is definitely a concern. Good luck on the throughput front though. Java libs (like Netty) still outpace what's available in Rust. You may end up with your own code being more performant, but the things you rely on externally being slower. This was our experience when trialing re-writes in Rust.
  - za3faran 3y ago
    It's probably RDD (resume driven development). It's always fun to rewrite in the latest new hype, and I don't have anything against Rust - I think it's great in the domains it is targeting.
insanitybit 3y ago
> Is memory util on servers still really a consideration in 2023 for most workloads if performance is otherwise good? The way that cloud scaling works is that as you increase RAM you also increase CPU, which costs a fortune. You can go for 'memory optimized' instances but even still, there are costs associated with memory that aren't just the RAM modules, unfortunately. Plus with container orchestration it's increasingly important to pack your services into a single instance, and memory can veryyyy quickly become the constraint - in fact, it might be the one I've seen most often.
- RhodesianHunter 3y ago
  I don't find this, but maybe it's something K8's helps us get away from? For our workloads we seem to need more CPU when we need more ram anyways.
  - insanitybit 3y ago
    No, you'd run into it with k8s more, if anything. But it is workload dependent.

chriskrycho 3y ago

Memory utilization on servers is absolutely a consideration in 2023. At work, we're looking seriously at migrating some key parts of our infrastructure from Java to Rust precisely because of factor (as well as startup time, throughput).

RhodesianHunter 3y ago
As someone working on systems that handle trillions of message per day in Java, I find this hard to relate to. Is it bad code? Some critical infrastructure flaw? Misunderstanding of memory options settings or how they work in containers? Startup time is definitely a concern. Good luck on the throughput front though. Java libs (like Netty) still outpace what's available in Rust. You may end up with your own code being more performant, but the things you rely on externally being slower. This was our experience when trialing re-writes in Rust.
- za3faran 3y ago
  It's probably RDD (resume driven development). It's always fun to rewrite in the latest new hype, and I don't have anything against Rust - I think it's great in the domains it is targeting.

insanitybit 3y ago

> Is memory util on servers still really a consideration in 2023 for most workloads if performance is otherwise good? The way that cloud scaling works is that as you increase RAM you also increase CPU, which costs a fortune. You can go for 'memory optimized' instances but even still, there are costs associated with memory that aren't just the RAM modules, unfortunately. Plus with container orchestration it's increasingly important to pack your services into a single instance, and memory can veryyyy quickly become the constraint - in fact, it might be the one I've seen most often.

RhodesianHunter 3y ago
I don't find this, but maybe it's something K8's helps us get away from? For our workloads we seem to need more CPU when we need more ram anyways.
- insanitybit 3y ago
  No, you'd run into it with k8s more, if anything. But it is workload dependent.