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The mere existence of marketing and sales is a really good example of why unregulated capitalism (heck, even heavily regulated capitalism) doesn't perform well

The mere existence of marketing and sales is a really good example of why unregulated capitalism (heck, even heavily regulated capitalism) doesn't perform well or do the things we would want an economic value system to do. Maximizing profits by selling useless products to people who don't need them isn't progress, but under capitalism it's oh so smart to do in the short term. I love that we worry about AI maximizing the wrong objective function and killing us all, when our own economic system is already doing that for us and has been for over a century.

kikokikokiko 3y ago
"Maximizing profits by selling useless products to people who don't need them isn't progress" And who are you (or anyone else) to decide the utility some thing has for someone else? I say this as a guy that only buys a new phone every 10 years, usually because, after swapping 2 or three batteries and learning how to use a soldering iron along the way, I finally dropped it and broke it beyond repair. Capitalism is the most amazing "invention" the human race ever achieved. The masses of ignorant fools that spend on things they "don't really need" are what creates the jobs maaaany other people around the world REALLY NEED to sustain theirs and their families lives. Being born and raised, and still residing, on a 3rd world country it amazes me to no end seeing the childish ignorance the average HN commenter have about how the world works. Being that the average HN commenter is an IT worker from the american coastal regions, it seems understandable that he is going to believe a world can exist, in this thermodinamically bound universe of ours, where resources can be magically given to anyone, regardless of their merits in working towards generating a part of it. There ain't no free lunches, just as there ain't no free robot technicians to fix them after they invitably broke apart. Even in 1000 years, after maybe humanity could have achieved a level of technological advance where it "could exist", how in the hell would the darwinistic forces of competition, to gather more resources to impress a potential mate, end the necessity to work? It's so silly to see people that reap the benefits of the free market and the hard work of millions of people trying to make their life better every day literally discussing UBI and nonsense like that.
- tyg13 3y ago
  Somehow you've convinced yourself that the widespread exploitation of economically inferior nations by the first world is actually beneficial to those nations which is wild to me. I would argue that the massive amount of human capital dedicated to creating useless trinkets and baubles for first world consumers would be better served improving the countries in which they live. A worker in an impoverished country toiling away to manufacture fast fashion or e-waste that will ultimately only serve to fill a landfill is understandably only doing what they must to survive, but don't pretend that that somehow makes it beneficial for themselves or the planet as a whole.

kikokikokiko 3y ago

"Maximizing profits by selling useless products to people who don't need them isn't progress" And who are you (or anyone else) to decide the utility some thing has for someone else? I say this as a guy that only buys a new phone every 10 years, usually because, after swapping 2 or three batteries and learning how to use a soldering iron along the way, I finally dropped it and broke it beyond repair. Capitalism is the most amazing "invention" the human race ever achieved. The masses of ignorant fools that spend on things they "don't really need" are what creates the jobs maaaany other people around the world REALLY NEED to sustain theirs and their families lives. Being born and raised, and still residing, on a 3rd world country it amazes me to no end seeing the childish ignorance the average HN commenter have about how the world works. Being that the average HN commenter is an IT worker from the american coastal regions, it seems understandable that he is going to believe a world can exist, in this thermodinamically bound universe of ours, where resources can be magically given to anyone, regardless of their merits in working towards generating a part of it. There ain't no free lunches, just as there ain't no free robot technicians to fix them after they invitably broke apart. Even in 1000 years, after maybe humanity could have achieved a level of technological advance where it "could exist", how in the hell would the darwinistic forces of competition, to gather more resources to impress a potential mate, end the necessity to work? It's so silly to see people that reap the benefits of the free market and the hard work of millions of people trying to make their life better every day literally discussing UBI and nonsense like that.

tyg13 3y ago
Somehow you've convinced yourself that the widespread exploitation of economically inferior nations by the first world is actually beneficial to those nations which is wild to me. I would argue that the massive amount of human capital dedicated to creating useless trinkets and baubles for first world consumers would be better served improving the countries in which they live. A worker in an impoverished country toiling away to manufacture fast fashion or e-waste that will ultimately only serve to fill a landfill is understandably only doing what they must to survive, but don't pretend that that somehow makes it beneficial for themselves or the planet as a whole.