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These are called NEET (not in education, employment, or training) in the west with a similarly large populace. I don't think we can attribute this to just Japan

These are called NEET (not in education, employment, or training) in the west with a similarly large populace. I don't think we can attribute this to just Japan. Canada also has a NEET population problem. I would rather attribute this to the rigors of society which doesn't allow for different development paths. Adulthood is a hard transition and some people need more time or different structures than others, but society doesn't allow for that. In the past these people would be vagrants until they "settled down" and could somewhat easily re-integrate back to society (employment as a stablehand could go to ferrier, horse trainer, or other land management). Now, with the need for specialization and training paired with age expectations, there's much less room. It's only reasonable to decide your window is missed and therefore there's nothing for you.

mherkender 3y ago
Shut-in would be more accurate, NEET is basically unemployed. There's overlap sure but someone on a job hunt is a bit different than someone who doesn't leave their home.
- bluefirebrand 3y ago
  I wonder if employment is really a valuable metric on it's own here. I've known a lot of people who live with a bunch of roommates, each of them works just a little, part time fast food or grocery store job type things. Outside of the very minimal participation in society at their jobs, they mostly sit at home, drink, smoke weed, and play videogames. Yeah, technically they aren't NEETs. Technically they don't live alone and eschew all social contact. But it seems to me it's basically the same lifestyle. Just hampered by the need to support oneself somehow. If they received a basic income that covered a solo apartment, weed, and a game a month ( or MMO subscription ) they absolutely would not be employed or living with people.
zer8k 3y ago
> I would rather attribute this to the rigors of society which doesn't allow for different development paths. Adulthood is a hard transition and some people need more time or different structures than others, but society doesn't allow for that. In the past these people would be vagrants until they "settled down" and could somewhat easily re-integrate back to society (employment as a stablehand could go to ferrier, horse trainer, or other land management). Now, with the need for specialization and training paired with age expectations, there's much less room. Given the phenomenon is almost exclusively male it probably has a lot to do with the borderline hatred for masculinity in the west as well. These men lack purpose that traditional masculinity provided. Before I get downvoted to death, I am not claiming the youtube star pseudo-masculinity is a good portrayal either (rather it is a reactionary movement to the prior). But the mixture of society not caring about men's issues at all (they don't exist, allegedly), the destruction of factory/manual work, men not going to college, dating apps creating a massive imbalance in sexual selection, etc all have an effect here. The situation seems hopeless for a lot of men. Who can blame someone for not trying when society seems to have it out for them. Society created this problem. The pendulum swinging hard from misogyny to misandry has had a dramatic negative effect on boys and men in general. We need to take the attitudes we used to raise girls up and apply them equally to boys. It starts in school. Hell, even as a successful man by society standards I still often feel society is out to get me. We have a lot of work to do and the answer is not to blame men for being lazy NEETs (which is what the pop media does).
- ethbr0 3y ago
  > the destruction of factory/manual work Decently paying factory/manual work. The hollowing out of manual work in many developed countries, replaced with bimodal service jobs (either high-income or low-income), is definitely a contributing factor. "I can go out and find a decently paying job on the strength of my body, rather than what I've learned/trained" is no longer true in most developed economies. Economically arguably, that's a good thing. But it does leave a clear gap for people who don't want to / can't enter into the knowledge workforce. Couple this with labor devaluing (salary and respect) at the hyper-efficient consumer businesses that do remain and provide the only entry-level jobs in many areas, and it's no surprise you have many people checking out.
- EatingWithForks 3y ago
  Actually, looking into this a bit more, NEETs are not primarily men! https://www3.nhk.or.jp/nhkworld/en/news/backstories/2391/ https://www3.nhk.or.jp/nhkworld/en/news/backstories/2391/ says its almost 50/50!
  - YellOh 3y ago
    The original article here also says "The largest proportion of people affected [by being a hikkikomori] were in their 40s or 50s and roughly equally divided between men and women." The Center for Economic and Policy Research actually notes significantly more female than male NEETs, though the female NEETs were also more likely to be disabled or caretaking for dependants. [0] I doubt this is misandry in any meaningful sense. [0] https://cepr.net/report/are-young-men-falling-behind-young-women-the-neet-rate-helps-shed-light-on-the-matter/ https://cepr.net/report/are-young-men-falling-behind-young-w...
    - deleted 3y ago
      [deleted]
    - throwaway33381 3y ago
      Those aren't NEETs but rather unemployed men unable to continue working often they're construction workers who's bodies give out. Since they are unable to be retrained in the Japanese system they often end up destitute and homeless. Along side recently divorced women unable to re-enter into the workforce it's two issues that are occurring simultaneously. There are some forms of resources for the women but the men are often left abandoned.
intrasight 3y ago
>Adulthood is a hard transition and some people need more time I live in the US, and everyone in my social network (age 40 to 60) was booted out of their parents house around age 18. And my piers in their 50s appear to be doing the same with their kids. Adulthood is the original "fake it till you make it" situation. Parenting is as well. Assuming there's no health issues at play, parents are doing their children a disservice by not allowing them to become adults.
- mistrial9 3y ago
  great take to isolate individuals into "pass or fail" tests.. maybe this is exactly the problem at this time of extreme change?
  - intrasight 3y ago
    test? what are you referring to?
ngc248 3y ago
NEET and hikkikomori are not the same. NEET are just unemployed. Hikkikomori are totally withdrawn from society and family.
- bluefirebrand 3y ago
  NEET aren't "just unemployed", it's a four letter acronym, employment is only one of them Not in Employment Education or Training It basically means "Not doing anything to better themselves" Yes, it doesn't imply "completely withdrawn from society" the same way, but that doesn't realt change the fact that many NEETs are in fact completely withdrawn.
s1artibartfast 3y ago
I'm not sure if the ability to be a vagrant has really changed much. I think rather what has changed is the level of social enablement for people to wallow in there situation and avoid leaving their comfort zone. Why would anyone go down the path of becoming a vagrant and eventually reintegrating if the alternative is to stay at home in relative comfort, be fed 3 meals a day, and be provided with electronics for video gaming?

mherkender 3y ago

Shut-in would be more accurate, NEET is basically unemployed. There's overlap sure but someone on a job hunt is a bit different than someone who doesn't leave their home.

bluefirebrand 3y ago
I wonder if employment is really a valuable metric on it's own here. I've known a lot of people who live with a bunch of roommates, each of them works just a little, part time fast food or grocery store job type things. Outside of the very minimal participation in society at their jobs, they mostly sit at home, drink, smoke weed, and play videogames. Yeah, technically they aren't NEETs. Technically they don't live alone and eschew all social contact. But it seems to me it's basically the same lifestyle. Just hampered by the need to support oneself somehow. If they received a basic income that covered a solo apartment, weed, and a game a month ( or MMO subscription ) they absolutely would not be employed or living with people.

zer8k 3y ago

> I would rather attribute this to the rigors of society which doesn't allow for different development paths. Adulthood is a hard transition and some people need more time or different structures than others, but society doesn't allow for that. In the past these people would be vagrants until they "settled down" and could somewhat easily re-integrate back to society (employment as a stablehand could go to ferrier, horse trainer, or other land management). Now, with the need for specialization and training paired with age expectations, there's much less room. Given the phenomenon is almost exclusively male it probably has a lot to do with the borderline hatred for masculinity in the west as well. These men lack purpose that traditional masculinity provided. Before I get downvoted to death, I am not claiming the youtube star pseudo-masculinity is a good portrayal either (rather it is a reactionary movement to the prior). But the mixture of society not caring about men's issues at all (they don't exist, allegedly), the destruction of factory/manual work, men not going to college, dating apps creating a massive imbalance in sexual selection, etc all have an effect here. The situation seems hopeless for a lot of men. Who can blame someone for not trying when society seems to have it out for them. Society created this problem. The pendulum swinging hard from misogyny to misandry has had a dramatic negative effect on boys and men in general. We need to take the attitudes we used to raise girls up and apply them equally to boys. It starts in school. Hell, even as a successful man by society standards I still often feel society is out to get me. We have a lot of work to do and the answer is not to blame men for being lazy NEETs (which is what the pop media does).

ethbr0 3y ago
> the destruction of factory/manual work Decently paying factory/manual work. The hollowing out of manual work in many developed countries, replaced with bimodal service jobs (either high-income or low-income), is definitely a contributing factor. "I can go out and find a decently paying job on the strength of my body, rather than what I've learned/trained" is no longer true in most developed economies. Economically arguably, that's a good thing. But it does leave a clear gap for people who don't want to / can't enter into the knowledge workforce. Couple this with labor devaluing (salary and respect) at the hyper-efficient consumer businesses that do remain and provide the only entry-level jobs in many areas, and it's no surprise you have many people checking out.
EatingWithForks 3y ago
Actually, looking into this a bit more, NEETs are not primarily men! https://www3.nhk.or.jp/nhkworld/en/news/backstories/2391/ https://www3.nhk.or.jp/nhkworld/en/news/backstories/2391/ says its almost 50/50!
- YellOh 3y ago
  The original article here also says "The largest proportion of people affected [by being a hikkikomori] were in their 40s or 50s and roughly equally divided between men and women." The Center for Economic and Policy Research actually notes significantly more female than male NEETs, though the female NEETs were also more likely to be disabled or caretaking for dependants. [0] I doubt this is misandry in any meaningful sense. [0] https://cepr.net/report/are-young-men-falling-behind-young-women-the-neet-rate-helps-shed-light-on-the-matter/ https://cepr.net/report/are-young-men-falling-behind-young-w...
  - deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]
  - throwaway33381 3y ago
    Those aren't NEETs but rather unemployed men unable to continue working often they're construction workers who's bodies give out. Since they are unable to be retrained in the Japanese system they often end up destitute and homeless. Along side recently divorced women unable to re-enter into the workforce it's two issues that are occurring simultaneously. There are some forms of resources for the women but the men are often left abandoned.

intrasight 3y ago

>Adulthood is a hard transition and some people need more time I live in the US, and everyone in my social network (age 40 to 60) was booted out of their parents house around age 18. And my piers in their 50s appear to be doing the same with their kids. Adulthood is the original "fake it till you make it" situation. Parenting is as well. Assuming there's no health issues at play, parents are doing their children a disservice by not allowing them to become adults.

mistrial9 3y ago
great take to isolate individuals into "pass or fail" tests.. maybe this is exactly the problem at this time of extreme change?
- intrasight 3y ago
  test? what are you referring to?

ngc248 3y ago

NEET and hikkikomori are not the same. NEET are just unemployed. Hikkikomori are totally withdrawn from society and family.

bluefirebrand 3y ago
NEET aren't "just unemployed", it's a four letter acronym, employment is only one of them Not in Employment Education or Training It basically means "Not doing anything to better themselves" Yes, it doesn't imply "completely withdrawn from society" the same way, but that doesn't realt change the fact that many NEETs are in fact completely withdrawn.

s1artibartfast 3y ago

I'm not sure if the ability to be a vagrant has really changed much. I think rather what has changed is the level of social enablement for people to wallow in there situation and avoid leaving their comfort zone. Why would anyone go down the path of becoming a vagrant and eventually reintegrating if the alternative is to stay at home in relative comfort, be fed 3 meals a day, and be provided with electronics for video gaming?