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> A planned economy is not the solution either - see every time that's been tried in history. In case you haven't noticed our current economy also does not wor

> A planned economy is not the solution either - see every time that's been tried in history. In case you haven't noticed our current economy also does not work. We are going to have to move to a new system sooner or later. Technology and productivity have reached a point (or are near the point) of being able to provide the basic living essentials to all citizens. The longer we delay accepting that, the more pain we'll all be in for.

TimTheTinker 3y ago
> In case you haven't noticed our current economy also does not work. Define "work". The problems I know of have to do with improper or incorrect governing, not the structure of the economy. These are problems with government: - Minimum wage has not been inflation-adjusted over the years - Antitrust legislation has failed to be enforced. The US government of 1920 would not tolerate the conglomerates, mergers, and anti-consumer practices of companies today. - DAs around the country (and federal prosecutors as well) are failing en mass to prosecute crime.
- bluefishinit 3y ago
  I agree those are huge problems! They don't have anything to do with your proposed solution of conservative fiscal policy though. Government spending isn't the issue, corruption and centralization of power is. That we keep ending up with a handful of billionaires who have an insane amount of influence over our society is partially the fault of the government as you point out.
  - TimTheTinker 3y ago
    > Government spending isn't the issue, corruption and centralization of power is. Why not both? I think both are big problems. Is there any time government has cut spending and it ended up making the economy worse by some measure?
    - bluefishinit 3y ago
      The economy is the problem. It doesn't accurately model externalities that we now know are important (climate change) or that we've always known were issues (inequality). The economy can be doing great and all of that value can be captured by a few people at the top, who then wreak havoc on everyone else. All the while the eco-sphere gets toasted because extracting value from natural resources at an ever increasing pace is also good for the economy. Both the environment and wealth inequality have hit or are very close to hitting the breaking point. My original point about MMT was that we'll need a radically new system to fix the problem. The one we have can't be brought there through the control mechanisms that exist.

TimTheTinker 3y ago

> In case you haven't noticed our current economy also does not work. Define "work". The problems I know of have to do with improper or incorrect governing, not the structure of the economy. These are problems with government: - Minimum wage has not been inflation-adjusted over the years - Antitrust legislation has failed to be enforced. The US government of 1920 would not tolerate the conglomerates, mergers, and anti-consumer practices of companies today. - DAs around the country (and federal prosecutors as well) are failing en mass to prosecute crime.

bluefishinit 3y ago
I agree those are huge problems! They don't have anything to do with your proposed solution of conservative fiscal policy though. Government spending isn't the issue, corruption and centralization of power is. That we keep ending up with a handful of billionaires who have an insane amount of influence over our society is partially the fault of the government as you point out.
- TimTheTinker 3y ago
  > Government spending isn't the issue, corruption and centralization of power is. Why not both? I think both are big problems. Is there any time government has cut spending and it ended up making the economy worse by some measure?
  - bluefishinit 3y ago
    The economy is the problem. It doesn't accurately model externalities that we now know are important (climate change) or that we've always known were issues (inequality). The economy can be doing great and all of that value can be captured by a few people at the top, who then wreak havoc on everyone else. All the while the eco-sphere gets toasted because extracting value from natural resources at an ever increasing pace is also good for the economy. Both the environment and wealth inequality have hit or are very close to hitting the breaking point. My original point about MMT was that we'll need a radically new system to fix the problem. The one we have can't be brought there through the control mechanisms that exist.