5 ms·

Seems like a lot of effort to keep asocial drivers on the road. Why not just take their drivers license? Then move on to prison time if they keep driving.

by tokai 3y ago

pjc50 3y ago
> six speeding tickets and red-light camera violations, or four speed camera or red-light violations, in a year That does sound like people who are completely oblivious to the law.
- analog31 3y ago
  Maybe they have courtesy cards from the police. https://www.vice.com/en/article/v7gxa4/pba-card-police-courtesy-cards https://www.vice.com/en/article/v7gxa4/pba-card-police-court...
- zeteo 3y ago
  Or 11 points, which is basically going 25 mph over twice in 18 months.
  - tokai 3y ago
    25mph over is bonkers. Doing that twice in a one and a half year should definitely have heavy consequences.
    - deleted 3y ago
      [deleted]
    - zeteo 3y ago
      You're probably thinking 50 in a 25 zone, which is indeed crazy. But 80 on a 55 stretch in the middle of nowhere is not at all unusual in a lot of places.
      - i_am_jl 3y ago
        >But 80 on a 55 stretch in the middle of nowhere is not at all unusual in a lot of places. Or anywhere on the NY Thruway.
woodruffw 3y ago
I agree, except for the prison time part: NYC’s prisons are more or less torture sites[1], and we really don’t need to send more people to be tortured. Driving a car is a privilege that can and should be rescinded, especially in a city where so many alternatives exist. [1]: https://apnews.com/article/rikers-island-new-york-city-006c68397e9d827bcbc86fa19fac3ecf https://apnews.com/article/rikers-island-new-york-city-006c6...
- sebzim4500 3y ago
  Then what do you do if they keep driving after you take the licence?
  - paulgb 3y ago
    Impound their vehicle?
    - jiminymcmoogley 3y ago
      that's a start but you might need to impound their money too if they keep using it to buy replacements
    - mannykannot 3y ago
      Personally, I think that would be a reasonable response, but there might be problems in practice. The driver may well not be the owner, or will lose their job and that will put their family on welfare... One can reasonably say "you should have thought of that", but in practice, the courts seem reluctant to act in such cases.
- mannykannot 3y ago
  Your modification of tokai's suggestion reverts it to what we have now, and that is not working very well.
  - woodruffw 3y ago
    Not really. Take away their license, impound their vehicle if they continue to drive it, and then sell it to pay their fines if they fail to do so.
kotaKat 3y ago
I actually researched VTL penalties; speeding under 10 MPH over is a $45 minimum to $150 maximum fine (before the ~$85 surcharge) and/or up to 15 days imprisonment, anything 11+ can be up to 30 days. It's gonna be unpopular, but maybe they need to see a couple days on a weekend behind bars as a sobering reminder.
- damnesian 3y ago
  >maybe they need to see a couple days on a weekend behind bars as a sobering reminder Anything I say that resembles stats would be made up, but just from my own anecdotal experience (being arrested and fingerprinted for failing to appear in traffic court, and friends spending the night in the drunk tank), I'd say this is exactly the wake-up call that most offenders would need to stop it. The remainder are likely serious addicts or psychopaths who need medical intervention.
zeteo 3y ago
Yes and while you're at it why not make all prison sentences for life?! That would definitely keep even more asocial people off a lot of roads... But seriously, what happened to that quaint old concept that "the punishment should fit the crime"? In a country where public transport sucks, losing your driver's license is a rather small step up from house arrest. And 11 points in NY, which is how most people would run afoul of this wonderful new law, is not at all hard to get. Heck, I once got 6 points in upstate NY because the cop was waiting at the bottom of a steep hill in the middle of nowhere. Fortunately he didn't find anything improper about me using my phone for GPS, or I would have hit 11 points instantly.
- tokai 3y ago
  Dangerous driving is a violent crime, with potentially deadly outcome. The punishment should be harsh for repeat offenders. Its not a crime your socioeconomic circumstances made you do, its very easy to just drive within the speed limit. Tough punishment for crimes usually done by the middle-class do often seem harsh for people, even though its not really harsh compared to many other actual victimless crimes.
  - zeteo 3y ago
    >The punishment should be harsh for repeat offenders. Its not a crime your socioeconomic circumstances made you do, its very easy to just drive within the speed limit. Tough punishment for crimes usually done by the middle-class do often seem harsh for people, even though its not really harsh compared to many other actual victimless crimes. I think it's a strange argument to say we'll make things fair to poor people in jail for drug offenses by sending less poor people to prison for speeding tickets.
    - tokai 3y ago
      Thats all you.
francisofascii 3y ago
Because unfortunately in the US, the ability to drive is required to get to work. Transit options are non-existent in most of the rural areas.
- xethos 3y ago
  I can accept that this is the state, not the city, but come on - this proposal is specifically for New York, home to one of the very few functional transit networks in America. Let's not pretend that New York (even the areas outside NYC) is on par with rural Wyoming.
  - locopati 3y ago
    Outside of NYC and the immediate metro area, public transport is either non-existent or poor at best.
  - kevin_thibedeau 3y ago
    Rural NY isn't significantly different than any other state. You're still isolated anywhere outside the metro areas.
rcyeh 3y ago
Taking the driver’s license should happen already through the points system (3+ points upon conviction for red light or speeding; 11 points in 18 months to license suspension)[0], but perhaps it’s not enough? I looked up the license plate of a car that hit me and saw 18 speeding violations, 4 school bus violations, 1 red light violations over the past six years. In the year before it hit me, there were 8 speeding violations. [1] [0] https://dmv.ny.gov/tickets/about-nys-driver-point-system https://dmv.ny.gov/tickets/about-nys-driver-point-system [1] https://www.howsmydrivingny.nyc/ https://www.howsmydrivingny.nyc/
giardini 3y ago
b/c that's exactly what happens: they keep on driving and going to prison. Drunks are stubborn.

Seems like a lot of effort to keep asocial drivers on the road. Why not just take their drivers license? Then move on to prison time if they keep driving.

by tokai 3y ago

Seems like a lot of effort to keep asocial drivers on the road. Why not just take their drivers license? Then move on to prison time if they keep driving.

pjc50 3y ago

> six speeding tickets and red-light camera violations, or four speed camera or red-light violations, in a year That does sound like people who are completely oblivious to the law.

analog31 3y ago
Maybe they have courtesy cards from the police. https://www.vice.com/en/article/v7gxa4/pba-card-police-courtesy-cards https://www.vice.com/en/article/v7gxa4/pba-card-police-court...
zeteo 3y ago
Or 11 points, which is basically going 25 mph over twice in 18 months.
- tokai 3y ago
  25mph over is bonkers. Doing that twice in a one and a half year should definitely have heavy consequences.
  - deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]
  - zeteo 3y ago
    You're probably thinking 50 in a 25 zone, which is indeed crazy. But 80 on a 55 stretch in the middle of nowhere is not at all unusual in a lot of places.
    - i_am_jl 3y ago
      >But 80 on a 55 stretch in the middle of nowhere is not at all unusual in a lot of places. Or anywhere on the NY Thruway.

woodruffw 3y ago

I agree, except for the prison time part: NYC’s prisons are more or less torture sites[1], and we really don’t need to send more people to be tortured. Driving a car is a privilege that can and should be rescinded, especially in a city where so many alternatives exist. [1]: https://apnews.com/article/rikers-island-new-york-city-006c68397e9d827bcbc86fa19fac3ecf https://apnews.com/article/rikers-island-new-york-city-006c6...

sebzim4500 3y ago
Then what do you do if they keep driving after you take the licence?
- paulgb 3y ago
  Impound their vehicle?
  - jiminymcmoogley 3y ago
    that's a start but you might need to impound their money too if they keep using it to buy replacements
  - mannykannot 3y ago
    Personally, I think that would be a reasonable response, but there might be problems in practice. The driver may well not be the owner, or will lose their job and that will put their family on welfare... One can reasonably say "you should have thought of that", but in practice, the courts seem reluctant to act in such cases.
mannykannot 3y ago
Your modification of tokai's suggestion reverts it to what we have now, and that is not working very well.
- woodruffw 3y ago
  Not really. Take away their license, impound their vehicle if they continue to drive it, and then sell it to pay their fines if they fail to do so.

kotaKat 3y ago

I actually researched VTL penalties; speeding under 10 MPH over is a $45 minimum to $150 maximum fine (before the ~$85 surcharge) and/or up to 15 days imprisonment, anything 11+ can be up to 30 days. It's gonna be unpopular, but maybe they need to see a couple days on a weekend behind bars as a sobering reminder.

damnesian 3y ago
>maybe they need to see a couple days on a weekend behind bars as a sobering reminder Anything I say that resembles stats would be made up, but just from my own anecdotal experience (being arrested and fingerprinted for failing to appear in traffic court, and friends spending the night in the drunk tank), I'd say this is exactly the wake-up call that most offenders would need to stop it. The remainder are likely serious addicts or psychopaths who need medical intervention.

zeteo 3y ago

Yes and while you're at it why not make all prison sentences for life?! That would definitely keep even more asocial people off a lot of roads... But seriously, what happened to that quaint old concept that "the punishment should fit the crime"? In a country where public transport sucks, losing your driver's license is a rather small step up from house arrest. And 11 points in NY, which is how most people would run afoul of this wonderful new law, is not at all hard to get. Heck, I once got 6 points in upstate NY because the cop was waiting at the bottom of a steep hill in the middle of nowhere. Fortunately he didn't find anything improper about me using my phone for GPS, or I would have hit 11 points instantly.

tokai 3y ago
Dangerous driving is a violent crime, with potentially deadly outcome. The punishment should be harsh for repeat offenders. Its not a crime your socioeconomic circumstances made you do, its very easy to just drive within the speed limit. Tough punishment for crimes usually done by the middle-class do often seem harsh for people, even though its not really harsh compared to many other actual victimless crimes.
- zeteo 3y ago
  >The punishment should be harsh for repeat offenders. Its not a crime your socioeconomic circumstances made you do, its very easy to just drive within the speed limit. Tough punishment for crimes usually done by the middle-class do often seem harsh for people, even though its not really harsh compared to many other actual victimless crimes. I think it's a strange argument to say we'll make things fair to poor people in jail for drug offenses by sending less poor people to prison for speeding tickets.
  - tokai 3y ago
    Thats all you.

francisofascii 3y ago

Because unfortunately in the US, the ability to drive is required to get to work. Transit options are non-existent in most of the rural areas.

xethos 3y ago
I can accept that this is the state, not the city, but come on - this proposal is specifically for New York, home to one of the very few functional transit networks in America. Let's not pretend that New York (even the areas outside NYC) is on par with rural Wyoming.
- locopati 3y ago
  Outside of NYC and the immediate metro area, public transport is either non-existent or poor at best.
- kevin_thibedeau 3y ago
  Rural NY isn't significantly different than any other state. You're still isolated anywhere outside the metro areas.

rcyeh 3y ago

Taking the driver’s license should happen already through the points system (3+ points upon conviction for red light or speeding; 11 points in 18 months to license suspension)[0], but perhaps it’s not enough? I looked up the license plate of a car that hit me and saw 18 speeding violations, 4 school bus violations, 1 red light violations over the past six years. In the year before it hit me, there were 8 speeding violations. [1] [0] https://dmv.ny.gov/tickets/about-nys-driver-point-system https://dmv.ny.gov/tickets/about-nys-driver-point-system [1] https://www.howsmydrivingny.nyc/ https://www.howsmydrivingny.nyc/

giardini 3y ago

b/c that's exactly what happens: they keep on driving and going to prison. Drunks are stubborn.