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(I work at Stripe) I'd like Stripe to be available for as broad a set of users as possible. Just think about our high-level business model: we charge a fee per

by smca 3y ago

(I work at Stripe) I'd like Stripe to be available for as broad a set of users as possible. Just think about our high-level business model: we charge a fee per transaction for our services. Closing an account without cause does not make financial sense, so we don't do it. If we were solely optimized for profit then we'd ideally want to accept as many businesses' transactions as we could, right? So that leaves three reasons why we might not: regulatory compliance (money laundering or fraud), risk management (high rate of chargebacks or credit risk), or a violation of our restricted businesses agreement (get rich quick schemes, counterfeit goods, etc). I have no idea what OP's business is or what they're selling, these things are typically left out of HN posts about Stripe for good reason. They're generally looking to overturn decisions we've made. We do of course make mistakes (and fix those rapidly) but you should consider why we would take action contrary to our business model—the answer is normally one of the three above.

sturza 3y ago
If you had to choose where to put resources between high volume enterprise and low volume SMBs, you’d choose the former.
- smca 3y ago
  Why would we not want "low volume" SMBs? Many of the SMBs on our platform grow to be much larger businesses. Ignoring a massive sector of businesses who might one day be the next "big thing" would be foolish for one thing and an unwise financial decision for another. That's why you can sign up as a small business on stripe.com today whereas on other platforms you need to talk to their sales team (and be generating serious revenue) before getting close.
  - friendzis 3y ago
    > Why would we not want "low volume" SMBs? Because your costs are inversely proportional to business size.
  - sturza 3y ago
    > Ignoring a massive sector of businesses who might one day be the next "big thing" would be foolish for one thing and an unwise financial decision for another. So Stripe would sacrifice enterprise high volume customers because they hope/speculate that low volume SMBs will one day be big, if they'd need to choose where to direct resources? I highly doubt it.
    - true_religion 3y ago
      This all sounds like a false dilemma. Why do they need to choose between either one?
      - sturza 3y ago
        From the OP: https://www.sitejabber.com/reviews/stripe.com https://www.sitejabber.com/reviews/stripe.com. I don't think big orgs post comments.
    - smca 3y ago
      It's not about speculating whether a given company would one day be big, it's accomodating for both for different reasons. Many of our "high volume customers" were one day not high volume, so saying we can't do both would be very short-sighted. And we see that in our data too: 1,000 new businesses joined Stripe every day last year. We also had 100+ companies process 1B+ in yearly volume. That captures everything from mom and pop shops to startups, and large enterprises like Amazon or Salesforce. We listen to them all to make sure we're still solving their problems. (Stripe itself was born out of listening to startups grumble about payments: http://www.paulgraham.com/schlep.html#:~:text=The%20most%20striking,of%20fixing%20payments http://www.paulgraham.com/schlep.html#:~:text=The%20most%20s....) It also helps reduce our dependency on any one sector of customers, similar to an index fund vs. stock picking. You don't get the same set of diverse businesses processing with e.g. Adyen—they just don't serve the long tail of the market in the way we do.
      - figassis 3y ago
        There’s some level of gaslighting going on here. It’s is possible for stripe to want to serve SMBs and also not have the resources to provide the necessary support an SMB needs when their account is in trouble in a timely manner. I’ve worked with larger startups that process on stripe, and stripe makes account execs available for most issues, and provides very good troubleshooting and advice that would be invaluable to SMBs like OP. Not claiming OPs business is in good standing, but to say that the issues mostly lie with the businesses is being a bit dishonest? I have seen many cases here on HN where after a post hits the front page, some C level or another well known stripe employee shows up and resolves the issue, proving that the customer was right in complaining. Do you believe they’d be able to get their issue resolved without hitting the front page, whether stripe wants their transaction fees or not? The issue most likely Stripe’s kyc/kyb requirements that only kick in once your account reaches a certain volume. You can view them via API (future requirements, due requirements, etc), and if the business does not provide or provide incorrect information, it may trigger deeper reviews that may or may not be documented. That’s likely when stripe takes a more careful look at the business model and numbers such as chargeback rates. The problem may lie in Stripe not providing enough info for why accounts are acted on. Corporate speak such as “violates our policies” will cause merchants to come to HN.
  - xp84 3y ago
    Why? My guess would be that like most companies you’re optimizing for short-term revenue, not long-term! Neglecting/firing low-volume customers who aren’t making you money this quarter so you can allocate those resources to your whales and not hire additional support staff improves this quarter’s numbers. Idk exactly what Stripe’s IPO plans are but as long as your exit is perceived to be a couple quarters in the future, there’s no incentive to worry about what companies might become the “next big thing.” That’s the next shareholder’s problem.
- quelltext 3y ago
  Then Stripe would just pull an Adyen and only allow such businesses. They don't and support millions of happy and legitimate SMBs. Yes, they won't get white glove treatment but don't write off the fact that Stripe is and wants to be supporting SMBs.
benwad 3y ago
My guess is that they're skimping on support, like every other tech company. Having good customer support with human support workers costs money, so some companies have taken the calculation that losing some small accounts might be worth it if they don't have to pay to provide proper support.
incog88 3y ago
Speaking from personal experience your company shut down my account because I didn't have a website. I was using it to bill friends and family for small hosting accounts and they shut me down for it. While it suited them during their build up phase they deemed that I who actually pay for accounting software and am now using their payment processing are too much of a risk for them. Your bias is a fallacy.
- smca 3y ago
  A working business website (or social media site) is required by Stripe’s terms of service, as well as the card networks (Visa and Mastercard). It ensures we know who is selling and what they're selling. If you don't have a working website you can get in touch with our support team to provide additional info/verification. https://support.stripe.com/questions/information-required-on-your-business-website-to-use-stripe https://support.stripe.com/questions/information-required-on...

by smca 3y ago

sturza 3y ago

If you had to choose where to put resources between high volume enterprise and low volume SMBs, you’d choose the former.

smca 3y ago
Why would we not want "low volume" SMBs? Many of the SMBs on our platform grow to be much larger businesses. Ignoring a massive sector of businesses who might one day be the next "big thing" would be foolish for one thing and an unwise financial decision for another. That's why you can sign up as a small business on stripe.com today whereas on other platforms you need to talk to their sales team (and be generating serious revenue) before getting close.
- friendzis 3y ago
  > Why would we not want "low volume" SMBs? Because your costs are inversely proportional to business size.
- sturza 3y ago
  > Ignoring a massive sector of businesses who might one day be the next "big thing" would be foolish for one thing and an unwise financial decision for another. So Stripe would sacrifice enterprise high volume customers because they hope/speculate that low volume SMBs will one day be big, if they'd need to choose where to direct resources? I highly doubt it.
  - true_religion 3y ago
    This all sounds like a false dilemma. Why do they need to choose between either one?
    - sturza 3y ago
      From the OP: https://www.sitejabber.com/reviews/stripe.com https://www.sitejabber.com/reviews/stripe.com. I don't think big orgs post comments.
  - smca 3y ago
    It's not about speculating whether a given company would one day be big, it's accomodating for both for different reasons. Many of our "high volume customers" were one day not high volume, so saying we can't do both would be very short-sighted. And we see that in our data too: 1,000 new businesses joined Stripe every day last year. We also had 100+ companies process 1B+ in yearly volume. That captures everything from mom and pop shops to startups, and large enterprises like Amazon or Salesforce. We listen to them all to make sure we're still solving their problems. (Stripe itself was born out of listening to startups grumble about payments: http://www.paulgraham.com/schlep.html#:~:text=The%20most%20striking,of%20fixing%20payments http://www.paulgraham.com/schlep.html#:~:text=The%20most%20s....) It also helps reduce our dependency on any one sector of customers, similar to an index fund vs. stock picking. You don't get the same set of diverse businesses processing with e.g. Adyen—they just don't serve the long tail of the market in the way we do.
    - figassis 3y ago
      There’s some level of gaslighting going on here. It’s is possible for stripe to want to serve SMBs and also not have the resources to provide the necessary support an SMB needs when their account is in trouble in a timely manner. I’ve worked with larger startups that process on stripe, and stripe makes account execs available for most issues, and provides very good troubleshooting and advice that would be invaluable to SMBs like OP. Not claiming OPs business is in good standing, but to say that the issues mostly lie with the businesses is being a bit dishonest? I have seen many cases here on HN where after a post hits the front page, some C level or another well known stripe employee shows up and resolves the issue, proving that the customer was right in complaining. Do you believe they’d be able to get their issue resolved without hitting the front page, whether stripe wants their transaction fees or not? The issue most likely Stripe’s kyc/kyb requirements that only kick in once your account reaches a certain volume. You can view them via API (future requirements, due requirements, etc), and if the business does not provide or provide incorrect information, it may trigger deeper reviews that may or may not be documented. That’s likely when stripe takes a more careful look at the business model and numbers such as chargeback rates. The problem may lie in Stripe not providing enough info for why accounts are acted on. Corporate speak such as “violates our policies” will cause merchants to come to HN.
- xp84 3y ago
  Why? My guess would be that like most companies you’re optimizing for short-term revenue, not long-term! Neglecting/firing low-volume customers who aren’t making you money this quarter so you can allocate those resources to your whales and not hire additional support staff improves this quarter’s numbers. Idk exactly what Stripe’s IPO plans are but as long as your exit is perceived to be a couple quarters in the future, there’s no incentive to worry about what companies might become the “next big thing.” That’s the next shareholder’s problem.
quelltext 3y ago
Then Stripe would just pull an Adyen and only allow such businesses. They don't and support millions of happy and legitimate SMBs. Yes, they won't get white glove treatment but don't write off the fact that Stripe is and wants to be supporting SMBs.

benwad 3y ago

My guess is that they're skimping on support, like every other tech company. Having good customer support with human support workers costs money, so some companies have taken the calculation that losing some small accounts might be worth it if they don't have to pay to provide proper support.

incog88 3y ago

Speaking from personal experience your company shut down my account because I didn't have a website. I was using it to bill friends and family for small hosting accounts and they shut me down for it. While it suited them during their build up phase they deemed that I who actually pay for accounting software and am now using their payment processing are too much of a risk for them. Your bias is a fallacy.

smca 3y ago
A working business website (or social media site) is required by Stripe’s terms of service, as well as the card networks (Visa and Mastercard). It ensures we know who is selling and what they're selling. If you don't have a working website you can get in touch with our support team to provide additional info/verification. https://support.stripe.com/questions/information-required-on-your-business-website-to-use-stripe https://support.stripe.com/questions/information-required-on...