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Japan is highly homogenous - their immigration policy would be decried by many liberals in the West as "racist". It is a massive factor in how their society is

Japan is highly homogenous - their immigration policy would be decried by many liberals in the West as "racist". It is a massive factor in how their society is run, and why they are so high-trust that they don't need strong enforcement mechanisms (in some cases. Don't be a Western car exec there for example). There is a show on Netflix called "Old Enough!". It's worth watching to see how some of the high-trust works in practice, and also to perhaps think through if we could be comfortable with the same in our own neighbourhoods and countries. My guess for most people in the Anglo West, the answer would be "No".

harryVic 3y ago
Singapore is incredibly diverse and doesn't have any drug problems due to tough laws.
- forgingahead 3y ago
  That's exactly my point. In high-trust, homogenous societies, you don't necessarily need harsh laws to enforce social norms and "civilised" behaviour. In more heterogenous societies, you have low-trust so you need tough laws to enforce the societal "norms". Japan is the former and Singapore is the latter. Both end up in good places to live, but one has to have the full discussion about the reasons and causes for each.
  - Barrin92 3y ago
    Have you lived in Japan? Because this is an almost stereotypical outsider view of the country. Japan has draconian drug laws, up to 10 years for minor possession. People can be held in detention, repeatedly, for weeks without being formally accused. Police is visibly present in public. All of East Asia is homogeneous. Every country is highly paternalistic and legalistic. North Korea is probably both the most homogeneous and authoritarian country on earth. In reality heterogeneous societies are significantly less prone to this. You could not turn India or the US into comparable police states because nobody would even agree on how to get there. Singapore gets away with it because it's effectively a small city state. A country of similar composition but 10x larger, which happens to actually exist just North, Malaysia, could never maintain that level of repression.
    - selimthegrim 3y ago
      > You could not turn India or the US into comparable police states because nobody would even agree on how to get there. They seem to be perfectly fine with it in Kashmir.
- Nursie 3y ago
  Some (many?) would say their drug laws and other harsh punishments are a problem in themselves.
- ffhhttt 3y ago
  It’s also a tiny country which happens to be a dictatorship where these drug laws are fairly easy to enforce. Also I’m not convinced that executing people for non-violent crimes is a good tradeoff in the first place.
pfannkuchen 3y ago
Are other Asians, like Koreans or Taiwanese, allowed to immigrate to Japan? I thought just no one was allowed to immigrate easily, and that they basically have no immigration as a result. Is there a specific prohibition based on race?
- skissane 3y ago
  > and that they basically have no immigration as a result I don't know where this idea that "Japan has no immigration" comes from – it isn't true. According to OECD statistics, in 2019 Japan (population 125 million) had net permanent immigration of 137,824 people. Compare that to fellow OECD member Mexico, with almost the same population, which in 2019 only had net permanent immigration of 38,704. [0] In 2019, Japan's population was 2.2% foreign nationals. [1] While that is at the low end by OECD standards, it is still ahead of Hungary (1.9%), Lithuania (1.7%), Slovakia (1.4%), Turkey (1.1%), Poland (0.6%) and Mexico (0.4%). According to MIPEX [2], the ease of gaining permanent residence in Japan is on par with the US and New Zealand, modestly easier than France and the UK, significantly easier than Switzerland or Australia. The worst country was Saudi Arabia, with UAE not far behind; equal first in ease were Brazil and Finland, with Sweden, Mexico and Ukraine equal second, and Hungary and South Africa equal third. [0] https://data.oecd.org/migration/permanent-immigrant-inflows.htm https://data.oecd.org/migration/permanent-immigrant-inflows.... [1] https://data.oecd.org/migration/foreign-population.htm https://data.oecd.org/migration/foreign-population.htm [2] https://www.mipex.eu/permanent-residence https://www.mipex.eu/permanent-residence
  - pfannkuchen 3y ago
    Well, for me, the idea comes from having been in Tokyo and seeing almost zero non-Japanese (looking people) compared to basically any large city in the West. Some of them could have been Korean etc though which is why I asked. EDIT: Just want to add that of your comparisons, the two I’m familiar with, Poland and Hungary, are notoriously anti immigration (at least within the context of the EU).
    - skissane 3y ago
zztop44 3y ago
Why would Japan’s immigration policy be decried as racist? Just because the low raw numbers of total immigrants and (especially) refugees? Or is there something else?
goodpoint 3y ago
It's indeed racist and not not "racist".

harryVic 3y ago

Singapore is incredibly diverse and doesn't have any drug problems due to tough laws.

forgingahead 3y ago
That's exactly my point. In high-trust, homogenous societies, you don't necessarily need harsh laws to enforce social norms and "civilised" behaviour. In more heterogenous societies, you have low-trust so you need tough laws to enforce the societal "norms". Japan is the former and Singapore is the latter. Both end up in good places to live, but one has to have the full discussion about the reasons and causes for each.
- Barrin92 3y ago
  Have you lived in Japan? Because this is an almost stereotypical outsider view of the country. Japan has draconian drug laws, up to 10 years for minor possession. People can be held in detention, repeatedly, for weeks without being formally accused. Police is visibly present in public. All of East Asia is homogeneous. Every country is highly paternalistic and legalistic. North Korea is probably both the most homogeneous and authoritarian country on earth. In reality heterogeneous societies are significantly less prone to this. You could not turn India or the US into comparable police states because nobody would even agree on how to get there. Singapore gets away with it because it's effectively a small city state. A country of similar composition but 10x larger, which happens to actually exist just North, Malaysia, could never maintain that level of repression.
  - selimthegrim 3y ago
    > You could not turn India or the US into comparable police states because nobody would even agree on how to get there. They seem to be perfectly fine with it in Kashmir.
Nursie 3y ago
Some (many?) would say their drug laws and other harsh punishments are a problem in themselves.
ffhhttt 3y ago
It’s also a tiny country which happens to be a dictatorship where these drug laws are fairly easy to enforce. Also I’m not convinced that executing people for non-violent crimes is a good tradeoff in the first place.

pfannkuchen 3y ago

Are other Asians, like Koreans or Taiwanese, allowed to immigrate to Japan? I thought just no one was allowed to immigrate easily, and that they basically have no immigration as a result. Is there a specific prohibition based on race?

skissane 3y ago
> and that they basically have no immigration as a result I don't know where this idea that "Japan has no immigration" comes from – it isn't true. According to OECD statistics, in 2019 Japan (population 125 million) had net permanent immigration of 137,824 people. Compare that to fellow OECD member Mexico, with almost the same population, which in 2019 only had net permanent immigration of 38,704. [0] In 2019, Japan's population was 2.2% foreign nationals. [1] While that is at the low end by OECD standards, it is still ahead of Hungary (1.9%), Lithuania (1.7%), Slovakia (1.4%), Turkey (1.1%), Poland (0.6%) and Mexico (0.4%). According to MIPEX [2], the ease of gaining permanent residence in Japan is on par with the US and New Zealand, modestly easier than France and the UK, significantly easier than Switzerland or Australia. The worst country was Saudi Arabia, with UAE not far behind; equal first in ease were Brazil and Finland, with Sweden, Mexico and Ukraine equal second, and Hungary and South Africa equal third. [0] https://data.oecd.org/migration/permanent-immigrant-inflows.htm https://data.oecd.org/migration/permanent-immigrant-inflows.... [1] https://data.oecd.org/migration/foreign-population.htm https://data.oecd.org/migration/foreign-population.htm [2] https://www.mipex.eu/permanent-residence https://www.mipex.eu/permanent-residence
- pfannkuchen 3y ago
  Well, for me, the idea comes from having been in Tokyo and seeing almost zero non-Japanese (looking people) compared to basically any large city in the West. Some of them could have been Korean etc though which is why I asked. EDIT: Just want to add that of your comparisons, the two I’m familiar with, Poland and Hungary, are notoriously anti immigration (at least within the context of the EU).
  - skissane 3y ago

zztop44 3y ago

Why would Japan’s immigration policy be decried as racist? Just because the low raw numbers of total immigrants and (especially) refugees? Or is there something else?

goodpoint 3y ago

It's indeed racist and not not "racist".