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> The programmers who implement this have to do what their boss tells them to, or change jobs, and this isn't something worth changing jobs over. I disagree. I
by kerkeslager 3y ago
> The programmers who implement this have to do what their boss tells them to, or change jobs, and this isn't something worth changing jobs over.
I disagree. I've been very intentional about the places I work and have managed to build a successful career while never implementing a dark pattern.
"I was just following orders" is not an excuse. Take responsibility for your actions.
- kayodelycaon 3y agoGreat. I have a disability and jobs I can do are difficult to find. The moral high ground is just a little bit harder to hold when your medical care isn't at stake.
- kerkeslager 3y agoWhat makes you think my medical care isn't at stake? That said, I realize there's some privilege implicit in what I said.
- ihateolives 3y agoGreat that it has worked for you. Life is not black and white though. It's easy to have a spine when you have fuck you money in the bank, but not so easy when you have family to feed. Would you starve you kids on principle just because you want to "take responsibility" at work?
- aziaziazi 3y agoIsn’t starving your kids a bit “black and white” ? I reckon you keep on working for that company for a while so you can feed your family. When they have eaten, look for a job that makes you proud.
- kerkeslager 3y agoI'd have no problem taking responsibility for my actions if my actions were "I implemented an unethical dark pattern for my employer because the alternative was letting my kids starve". "I was just following orders" isn't an excuse, but I'd venture "I was feeding my children" IS a pretty good excuse. But that likely isn't the reality of the situation. If you're employed in software in the West it is very unlikely that your children are on the verge of starvation. Much more likely is that you might have to accept a slightly lower standard of living to work at companies that behave ethically, and I'm not particularly sympathetic to that.
- earthling8118 3y agoI've walked out of jobs for being outright abusive before. This has made the job search much more difficult for me and has been a point of controversy in the hiring decision before. I held out for many months without employment but the savings dry up. This isn't a viable path for everyone to take. It has stunted my personal development and put me in a very difficult financial position.
- kerkeslager 3y agoWalking out might not be the best strategy. Part of my success in this has been being more selective in the job search so that I'm not working at such a company to begin with. I'll note that jobs which don't behave ethically with regards to dark patterns, also tend not to behave ethically with regards to their employees. If people care more about making money than doing what's right, that tends to be pretty pervasive in their behavior.