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Can it? According to the constitution, specifically Ammendment XIV, "The validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law, including debts in

Can it? According to the constitution, specifically Ammendment XIV, "The validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law, including debts incurred for payment of pensions and bounties for services in suppressing insurrection or rebellion, shall not be questioned." Does that mean the US cannot legally default on its debts?

landemva 3y ago
That part of 14th was to validate northern civil war debt and exclude Confederate debt. The 14th does not override Congress' authority to tax and spend ... or not spend. Article I, Section 8.
rhaway84773 3y ago
I think even if you’re right in theory (which I believe you are), the problem is in getting the Supreme Court to agree. And even if they do, by the time the issue makes its way through the courts, the damage would already be have done.
rhaway84773 3y ago
Except the problem is that Congress has already authorized the spending. What it hasn’t authorized is how the executive should raise the money Congress has told it to spend. There is no limit on government borrowing besides the debt limit which comes very directly in conflict with the U.S. government’s constitutional mandate to pay its debts. In nearly every other country the constitution would very clearly supersede the debt limit congress has created, but it’s not clear whether that’s a reliable heuristic in the U.S.
- landemva 3y ago
  > how the executive should raise the money Only Congress can raise money through spending bills.
  - lazide 3y ago
    Raising money != spending it. Ideally they are a paired activity, but issuing debt can be done with no corresponding spending. And spending can be done with no corresponding (exactly) debt or taxes. And taxes are gathered by the executive, and the amount of taxes actually gathered is also independent of either body (as they’re a function of tax rules and executive effectiveness * economic activity, etc.).
eredengrin 3y ago
You are correct, the government cannot default on its debts (assuming they were legally authorized). Justin Amash recently wrote a very helpful blog post [0] about the debt and this is his interpretation of the amendment. Recommend reading the whole thing but the most relevant portion would be myth #4. [0] https://justinamash.substack.com/p/the-debt-ceiling-isnt-what-you-think https://justinamash.substack.com/p/the-debt-ceiling-isnt-wha...

landemva 3y ago

That part of 14th was to validate northern civil war debt and exclude Confederate debt. The 14th does not override Congress' authority to tax and spend ... or not spend. Article I, Section 8.

rhaway84773 3y ago

I think even if you’re right in theory (which I believe you are), the problem is in getting the Supreme Court to agree. And even if they do, by the time the issue makes its way through the courts, the damage would already be have done.

rhaway84773 3y ago

Except the problem is that Congress has already authorized the spending. What it hasn’t authorized is how the executive should raise the money Congress has told it to spend. There is no limit on government borrowing besides the debt limit which comes very directly in conflict with the U.S. government’s constitutional mandate to pay its debts. In nearly every other country the constitution would very clearly supersede the debt limit congress has created, but it’s not clear whether that’s a reliable heuristic in the U.S.

landemva 3y ago
> how the executive should raise the money Only Congress can raise money through spending bills.
- lazide 3y ago
  Raising money != spending it. Ideally they are a paired activity, but issuing debt can be done with no corresponding spending. And spending can be done with no corresponding (exactly) debt or taxes. And taxes are gathered by the executive, and the amount of taxes actually gathered is also independent of either body (as they’re a function of tax rules and executive effectiveness * economic activity, etc.).

eredengrin 3y ago

You are correct, the government cannot default on its debts (assuming they were legally authorized). Justin Amash recently wrote a very helpful blog post [0] about the debt and this is his interpretation of the amendment. Recommend reading the whole thing but the most relevant portion would be myth #4. [0] https://justinamash.substack.com/p/the-debt-ceiling-isnt-what-you-think https://justinamash.substack.com/p/the-debt-ceiling-isnt-wha...