3 ms·

Thank you for taking the time to follow up! Definitely a bit paranoid - even if I'd prefer to call it robust :) I've had very bad luck in this regard... but h

Thank you for taking the time to follow up! Definitely a bit paranoid - even if I'd prefer to call it robust :) I've had very bad luck in this regard... but haven't honestly used a laptop in probably a decade. I was pleasantly surprised to see my latest (dust-collecting) Lenovo will stop somewhere around 80%! Point being, sure - there are safety things... but batteries are consumables. I like these things to be easy-to-replace! I find these being difficult to replace accelerates this pattern of obsoleting. CPUs and (especially disks) tend to pack plenty of punch/life, these days - well beyond the mechanical/chemical things they depend on. Something to ponder - these chips may see particularly long use, being so power efficient. The utility bill won't be such a driver, sipping power and parallelizing decently.

shagie 3y ago
> ... but batteries are consumables. I like these things to be easy-to-replace! Replaceable, consumable batteries often get thrown out in the trash. ... and can set garbage trucks and recycling centers on fire. https://www.waste360.com/safety/lithium-ion-batteries-are-causing-five-alarm-fires-garbage-trucks-waste-and-recycling https://www.waste360.com/safety/lithium-ion-batteries-are-ca... https://www.dispatch.com/story/news/local/2023/02/09/garbage-truck-fire-caused-by-lithium-ion-battery-in-laptop-rumpke-says/69886377007/ https://www.dispatch.com/story/news/local/2023/02/09/garbage... https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2022/12/recycling-firm-fined-after-tossed-batteries-cause-garbage-truck-fires/ https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2022/12/recycling-firm-fined... https://gothamist.com/news/lithium-ion-batteries-a-growing-fire-hazard-in-nyc-garbage-trucks-dsny-says https://gothamist.com/news/lithium-ion-batteries-a-growing-f... https://www.abc.net.au/news/2023-05-29/garbage-truck-fires-caused-by-batteries-increasing/102398638 https://www.abc.net.au/news/2023-05-29/garbage-truck-fires-c... (and many more) How does one make sure that removable, consumable, high capacity batteries are not discarded as trash but instead taken to the proper facilities to handle them?
- jondwillis 3y ago
  Is the dichotomy here really that we can either have modular batteries, or we can have more intact waste trucks and workers? However, having just taken an entire stroller out of my shared duplex recycling bin, I know there will never be an ethical way to get 100% of people to care enough to dispose of waste properly.
- mschuster91 3y ago
  We can't. Instead we're making it worse by selling disposable vapes with rechargeable li-ion batteries [1]. [1] https://www.recyclingmagazin.de/2023/07/17/das-ungenutzte-potenzial-alter-einweg-e-vapes/ https://www.recyclingmagazin.de/2023/07/17/das-ungenutzte-po...
- bravetraveler 3y ago
  I wish I knew a good answer - this is an excellent concern. I'm skeptical of recyclers/waste centers, but that's what I've got.
  - shagie 3y ago
    Having things that are have special handling for disposal not be as user serviceable is one solution... but that goes against the replaceable battery. The AA lithium ion batteries getting tossed into the trash and setting garbage trucks on fire are problematic enough. The energy capacity of a cell phone is quite a bit more and correspondingly more spectacular in the combustion. From iFixit: https://www.ifixit.com/News/69041/how-batteries-can-catch-fire-and-how-to-prevent-it https://www.ifixit.com/News/69041/how-batteries-can-catch-fi... https://www.ifixit.com/News/34034/lithium-ion-batteries-are-a-literal-trash-fire-and-getting-worse https://www.ifixit.com/News/34034/lithium-ion-batteries-are-... > USA Today reports that 65 percent of fires at waste facilities in California were started by lithium-ion batteries. In a 2018 survey of 21 waste facilities across California, 86 percent reported a fire at their facility in the last two years, according to the California Products Stewardship Council (CPSC). Of those fires, 56 percent were attributed to batteries, with the remainder attributed to “traditional hazards of combustibles.” In other words, batteries are causing more fires than the oils, fuels, and other hazardous materials of waste management—combined. > And that’s only the fires actually reported.
- xp84 3y ago
  Respectfully, today people just chuck the entire phone/laptop in the bin. I don’t think making the battery module removable changes the outcome one bit, except that it would allow a tremendous amount more life out of these devices, reducing all the other (non-battery) waste streams and reducing the environmentally costly manufacture of new devices…. which is the reason why the shareholders love the current strategy and why all electronic manufacturers are moving the same way. Why allow users to get 3 more years of life from their laptop when you could convince them it’s e-waste after 3 because of a $15 battery?

shagie 3y ago

> ... but batteries are consumables. I like these things to be easy-to-replace! Replaceable, consumable batteries often get thrown out in the trash. ... and can set garbage trucks and recycling centers on fire. https://www.waste360.com/safety/lithium-ion-batteries-are-causing-five-alarm-fires-garbage-trucks-waste-and-recycling https://www.waste360.com/safety/lithium-ion-batteries-are-ca... https://www.dispatch.com/story/news/local/2023/02/09/garbage-truck-fire-caused-by-lithium-ion-battery-in-laptop-rumpke-says/69886377007/ https://www.dispatch.com/story/news/local/2023/02/09/garbage... https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2022/12/recycling-firm-fined-after-tossed-batteries-cause-garbage-truck-fires/ https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2022/12/recycling-firm-fined... https://gothamist.com/news/lithium-ion-batteries-a-growing-fire-hazard-in-nyc-garbage-trucks-dsny-says https://gothamist.com/news/lithium-ion-batteries-a-growing-f... https://www.abc.net.au/news/2023-05-29/garbage-truck-fires-caused-by-batteries-increasing/102398638 https://www.abc.net.au/news/2023-05-29/garbage-truck-fires-c... (and many more) How does one make sure that removable, consumable, high capacity batteries are not discarded as trash but instead taken to the proper facilities to handle them?

jondwillis 3y ago
Is the dichotomy here really that we can either have modular batteries, or we can have more intact waste trucks and workers? However, having just taken an entire stroller out of my shared duplex recycling bin, I know there will never be an ethical way to get 100% of people to care enough to dispose of waste properly.
mschuster91 3y ago
We can't. Instead we're making it worse by selling disposable vapes with rechargeable li-ion batteries [1]. [1] https://www.recyclingmagazin.de/2023/07/17/das-ungenutzte-potenzial-alter-einweg-e-vapes/ https://www.recyclingmagazin.de/2023/07/17/das-ungenutzte-po...
bravetraveler 3y ago
I wish I knew a good answer - this is an excellent concern. I'm skeptical of recyclers/waste centers, but that's what I've got.
- shagie 3y ago
  Having things that are have special handling for disposal not be as user serviceable is one solution... but that goes against the replaceable battery. The AA lithium ion batteries getting tossed into the trash and setting garbage trucks on fire are problematic enough. The energy capacity of a cell phone is quite a bit more and correspondingly more spectacular in the combustion. From iFixit: https://www.ifixit.com/News/69041/how-batteries-can-catch-fire-and-how-to-prevent-it https://www.ifixit.com/News/69041/how-batteries-can-catch-fi... https://www.ifixit.com/News/34034/lithium-ion-batteries-are-a-literal-trash-fire-and-getting-worse https://www.ifixit.com/News/34034/lithium-ion-batteries-are-... > USA Today reports that 65 percent of fires at waste facilities in California were started by lithium-ion batteries. In a 2018 survey of 21 waste facilities across California, 86 percent reported a fire at their facility in the last two years, according to the California Products Stewardship Council (CPSC). Of those fires, 56 percent were attributed to batteries, with the remainder attributed to “traditional hazards of combustibles.” In other words, batteries are causing more fires than the oils, fuels, and other hazardous materials of waste management—combined. > And that’s only the fires actually reported.
xp84 3y ago
Respectfully, today people just chuck the entire phone/laptop in the bin. I don’t think making the battery module removable changes the outcome one bit, except that it would allow a tremendous amount more life out of these devices, reducing all the other (non-battery) waste streams and reducing the environmentally costly manufacture of new devices…. which is the reason why the shareholders love the current strategy and why all electronic manufacturers are moving the same way. Why allow users to get 3 more years of life from their laptop when you could convince them it’s e-waste after 3 because of a $15 battery?