6 ms·
It's almost like congress holding the fucking debt limit hostage every few months isn't good for the rating or the country as a whole.
by cchance 3y ago
It's almost like congress holding the fucking debt limit hostage every few months isn't good for the rating or the country as a whole.
- gumby 3y agoLet's be real: it's only part of congress.
- revscat 3y agoOn HN holding one party more culpable than another tends to garner downvotes and flags.
- epgui 3y agoReality has a well known _ bias.
- cubefox 3y agoFlags should seriously be removed. They only serve for mindkilled censorship voting by political partisans.
- macintux 3y agoThe Democratic Party has historically not opposed raising the debt limit, so this is one of the few occasions where “both sides” is objectively wrong. (I’d argue that “both sides” thinking is usually lacking in objectivity, but this seems unarguable.)
- version_five 3y agoAm I reading the insinuations properly, that people are blaming Republicans for the rating change because they dare to question printing unlimited money, and belive if Republicans were more "responsible" and just allowed money to be printed unchecked there would be no problem? I see no evidence that either party wants to restrain spending when in power, but pretending this is a partisan issue and that one party is at fault for questioning spending as apparently some are doing is reality distortion to a new extreme.
- sagarm 3y agoRepublicans specifically want to use the debt ceiling as a way to extract concessions when they don't have both houses of Congress.
- WWLink 3y ago> people are blaming Republicans Well yea of course they are. You act like that's some kind of terrible thing to do, lol.
- throw0101a 3y ago> Am I reading the insinuations properly, that people are blaming Republicans for the rating change because they dare to question printing unlimited money, and belive if Republicans were more "responsible" and just allowed money to be printed unchecked there would be no problem? If the GOP has an issue with "printing unlimited money", perhaps they should have cut spending when they had full control of Congress and the White House, rather than implementing cut taxes and boost spending: * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tax_Cuts_and_Jobs_Act https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tax_Cuts_and_Jobs_Act The GOP only has an issue with "printing unlimited money" when there is a Democrat in the White House. The Republicans were also quite adamant on spending control during the Clinton (Democrat) years: * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1995–1996_United_States_federal_government_shutdowns https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1995–1996_United_States_federa... But much less so under the Bush (Republican) years: * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bush_tax_cuts https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bush_tax_cuts Reminder: it was under a Democratic president (Clinton) that the US had a budget surplus: * https://www.brookings.edu/articles/a-surplus-if-we-can-keep-it-how-the-federal-budget-surplus-happened/ https://www.brookings.edu/articles/a-surplus-if-we-can-keep-... * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economic_policy_of_the_Bill_Clinton_administration#Deficits_and_debt https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economic_policy_of_the_Bill_Cl... And it was lost under a Republican president. So yes: it is one particular party that is more of the issue.
- onos 3y agoFor sure. Possibly the magnitude of our debt is an issue too.
- aionaiodfgnio 3y agoWe don't need to speculate. >Ratings Downgrade: The rating downgrade of the United States reflects the expected fiscal deterioration over the next three years, a high and growing general government debt burden, and the erosion of governance relative to 'AA' and 'AAA' rated peers over the last two decades that has manifested in repeated debt limit standoffs and last-minute resolutions.
- gjsman-1000 3y agoIt doesn't take an economist to take one look at statistics like this (among others) and think, "that doesn't look promising." https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/A091RC1Q027SBEA https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/A091RC1Q027SBEA Or, well, a lot of just general statistics around the debt once you consider what they literally mean. https://www.usdebtclock.org https://www.usdebtclock.org
- creato 3y agoApparently you do, because that chart shows inflation more than anything else. The chart you actually want to make your point is this one: https://www.crfb.org/sites/default/files/Screen%20Shot%202021-05-19%20at%2012.57.37%20PM.png https://www.crfb.org/sites/default/files/Screen%20Shot%20202... Which is still not great, but it isn’t an arbitrary exponential with no context.
- infamouscow 3y agoThere's no incentive to do anything except wait until the last moment. From a game theoretic perspective, waiting until the last moment is the most optimal. Therefore, it will continue to happen until the voters find it so unpopular they begin voting out politicians that behave like this.
- kykeonaut 3y agoDowngrading from a AAA rating to a AA+ rating sounds like the least advantageous from a game theory perspective as well. I wish politicians weren't so short-sided.
- killdozer 3y agoThere's only one side holding the debt ceiling hostage, it's just a conservative problem.
- gjsman-1000 3y agoIronic, considering they literally had the power to raise the debt ceiling for two years while they were in Congress. But it's too much to ask that they have less than a year of foresight. https://www.axios.com/2023/05/23/democrats-debt-ceiling-regrets https://www.axios.com/2023/05/23/democrats-debt-ceiling-regr...
- favorited 3y agoThe would have needed Manchin's support, and without periodic debt ceiling emergencies he wouldn't get as much airtime to advocate for cuts. https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2023/02/07/joe-manchin-debt-limit-spending/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2023/02/07/joe-manch...
- kykeonaut 3y agoAgreed. Although progressive politicians, or as I like to call them, the right-light, do contribute their fair share of problems.
- sovnade 3y agoYep - the fact that they listed this at the very top of the reasons above any kind of debt or spending numbers is pretty telling. And they're not wrong
- nostromo 3y agoExcept it's not. > Ratings Downgrade: The rating downgrade of the United States reflects the expected fiscal deterioration over the next three years, a high and growing general government debt burden, and the erosion of governance relative to 'AA' and 'AAA' rated peers over the last two decades that has manifested in repeated debt limit standoffs and last-minute resolutions.
- janalsncm 3y agoI believe the “holding the debt ceiling hostage” falls under erosion of governance.
- jsnell 3y agoYes, but there are two other reasons before that (projected fiscal deterioration, high debt burden). So it's in the list of reasons but, not at the "very top".
- piva00 3y agoA high and growing debt burden on the US government has been true for decades, that hasn't changed, what seems to have more impact is exactly the erosion of governance. The constant stand-offs holding the budget hostage isn't a thing that happens with other AAA-rated governments, it's pretty unique to the USA and has been happening constantly for the past decade+. I believe what the other comments mentioning "at the very top" mean is that it's there on the by-line, not buried somewhere else in the report. To me it makes sense to call it "at the very top".
- steve76 3y ago[dead]
- WWLink 3y agoAbout 1/3 of the comments in here are excitedly arguing exactly the opposite - that the brave souls holding the debt limit hostage every year are saving the country. Which of course is bull shit. But here we are.