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Does anyone remember X3D[1] / VRML? X3D is roughly the same concept, 20-some years ago. Here's a hello world for X3D: https://www.web3d.org/x3d/content/example

by gyf304 3y ago

Does anyone remember X3D[1] / VRML? X3D is roughly the same concept, 20-some years ago. Here's a hello world for X3D: https://www.web3d.org/x3d/content/examples/Basic/X3dSpecifications/RedSphereBlueBoxIndex.html https://www.web3d.org/x3d/content/examples/Basic/X3dSpecific... And here's a hello world for OpenUSD: https://www.openusd.org/release/tut_helloworld.html#viewing-and-editing-usd-file-contents https://www.openusd.org/release/tut_helloworld.html#viewing-... Although X3D is a bit more verbose, a lot of parallels can be drawn between the two, 20 years apart. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/X3D https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/X3D

vxNsr 3y ago
Not all surprising that X3D uses xml and of course OpenUSD uses some form of python/json thing
khazhoux 3y ago
I was tinkering in that space in the mid-90s, and always felt the file format was a missed opportunity, and wasn't taking any of the lessons of HTML. What I wanted (but never built) was a semantic file format, something like: <room style="square" id="room1"> <wall direction=north> <picture frame="modern" src="http://foo.com/fancycat.jpg" /> </wall> <wall direction=south> <door room="room2" /> </wall> </room>
- sien 3y ago
  There was a company in Sweden that built a system that used VRML and extended like that where you could define what the nodes were and reference and re-use them. The system also enable Python to script behaviour. It also used the PHANToM for haptic feedback and used a 3D stereoscopic display https://www.researchgate.net/figure/A-Reachin-Display-equipped-with-a-Desktop-PHANToM_fig2_228367531 https://www.researchgate.net/figure/A-Reachin-Display-equipp... The company H3D has built something similar. https://h3d.org/ https://h3d.org/
- cubefox 3y ago
  That's way too high level and ambiguous. Something could look okay in one browser and totally crap in another.
  - johnnyanmac 3y ago
    >look okay in one browser and totally crap in another. We're talking about 3d model formats where the current industry standard is a close sourced Autodesk nightmare. This is already the default situaton. There's not much incentive to change either because animation and game studios tend to roll their own tech.
- JayStavis 3y ago
  Sounds like you are looking for react-three-fiber, which looks just like this! The examples, demos, and development experience are great, but since it's based on web tech hasn't made a big splash yet with the bigger 3D content businesses. You can actually render a gltf as a JSX tree too with gltfjsx: https://github.com/pmndrs/gltfjsx https://github.com/pmndrs/gltfjsx
- datavirtue 3y ago
  <surface orientation=x name="south wall" rotation=-125 .../>
irrational 3y ago
I do remember VRML. I read a book about it and spent some time playing around with it in the mid-90s. I didn't follow it closely enough to know when it died off (I'm assuming it died off since I haven't heard it mentioned much in decades).
- perilunar 3y ago
  VRML is still around — it became X3D. It's a different file format but the semantics are much the same. All the plugins that used to be needed to display VRML online are gone now, but you can still display VRML 2.0/97 files online using JavaScript library called X_ITE [1]. I used it recently to view some old VRML I had saved but could no longer view. Works great. 1. https://create3000.github.io/x_ite/ https://create3000.github.io/x_ite/
bschwindHN 3y ago
I remember VRML. Unfortunately KiCAD still uses it for 3D models (though thankfully it supports STEP files too)
ComodoHacker 3y ago
We had to wait 20 years until some entity interested in interoperability became powerful enough that vendors started listening to them.
perilunar 3y ago
> X3D is roughly the same concept, 20-some years ago That was my initial thought also. > Although X3D is a bit more verbose The USDA file format reminds me a lot of the pre-XML VRML 97 file format, with the curly bracket C-style syntax, #comments, and 'def' everywhere. https://openusd.org/release/spec_usdpreviewsurface.html#usd-sample https://openusd.org/release/spec_usdpreviewsurface.html#usd-...

by gyf304 3y ago

vxNsr 3y ago

Not all surprising that X3D uses xml and of course OpenUSD uses some form of python/json thing

khazhoux 3y ago

I was tinkering in that space in the mid-90s, and always felt the file format was a missed opportunity, and wasn't taking any of the lessons of HTML. What I wanted (but never built) was a semantic file format, something like: <room style="square" id="room1"> <wall direction=north> <picture frame="modern" src="http://foo.com/fancycat.jpg" /> </wall> <wall direction=south> <door room="room2" /> </wall> </room>

sien 3y ago
There was a company in Sweden that built a system that used VRML and extended like that where you could define what the nodes were and reference and re-use them. The system also enable Python to script behaviour. It also used the PHANToM for haptic feedback and used a 3D stereoscopic display https://www.researchgate.net/figure/A-Reachin-Display-equipped-with-a-Desktop-PHANToM_fig2_228367531 https://www.researchgate.net/figure/A-Reachin-Display-equipp... The company H3D has built something similar. https://h3d.org/ https://h3d.org/
cubefox 3y ago
That's way too high level and ambiguous. Something could look okay in one browser and totally crap in another.
- johnnyanmac 3y ago
  >look okay in one browser and totally crap in another. We're talking about 3d model formats where the current industry standard is a close sourced Autodesk nightmare. This is already the default situaton. There's not much incentive to change either because animation and game studios tend to roll their own tech.
JayStavis 3y ago
Sounds like you are looking for react-three-fiber, which looks just like this! The examples, demos, and development experience are great, but since it's based on web tech hasn't made a big splash yet with the bigger 3D content businesses. You can actually render a gltf as a JSX tree too with gltfjsx: https://github.com/pmndrs/gltfjsx https://github.com/pmndrs/gltfjsx
datavirtue 3y ago
<surface orientation=x name="south wall" rotation=-125 .../>

irrational 3y ago

I do remember VRML. I read a book about it and spent some time playing around with it in the mid-90s. I didn't follow it closely enough to know when it died off (I'm assuming it died off since I haven't heard it mentioned much in decades).

perilunar 3y ago
VRML is still around — it became X3D. It's a different file format but the semantics are much the same. All the plugins that used to be needed to display VRML online are gone now, but you can still display VRML 2.0/97 files online using JavaScript library called X_ITE [1]. I used it recently to view some old VRML I had saved but could no longer view. Works great. 1. https://create3000.github.io/x_ite/ https://create3000.github.io/x_ite/

bschwindHN 3y ago

I remember VRML. Unfortunately KiCAD still uses it for 3D models (though thankfully it supports STEP files too)

ComodoHacker 3y ago

We had to wait 20 years until some entity interested in interoperability became powerful enough that vendors started listening to them.

perilunar 3y ago

> X3D is roughly the same concept, 20-some years ago That was my initial thought also. > Although X3D is a bit more verbose The USDA file format reminds me a lot of the pre-XML VRML 97 file format, with the curly bracket C-style syntax, #comments, and 'def' everywhere. https://openusd.org/release/spec_usdpreviewsurface.html#usd-sample https://openusd.org/release/spec_usdpreviewsurface.html#usd-...