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I support making drugs legal. But, it also requires an extensive framework around that legalization. Social supports. Information. Safety nets/healthcare. Wit

I support making drugs legal. But, it also requires an extensive framework around that legalization. Social supports. Information. Safety nets/healthcare. Without that, it's gonna fails.

unethical_ban 3y ago
I'll pick your comment out of the pack to pick on, though I think we agree. Yours, and dozens of others, talk about "drugs". That's like talking about banning "food" when there is a problem with people eating five cheeseburgers a day. --- The problem is not with cannabis, or mushrooms, or aspirin. It's with meth, heroin, fentanyl, and prescription opioids. Drugs need to be *properly* ranked by government and restricted accordingly. * How easy is it to acutely overdose on a substance? * How chemically addictive is the substance? * How damaging is chronic use of the drug over time to the body and mind? * Is there any medical benefit? The fact that cannabis is federally ranked as the most controlled level of drug in the US shows we have a broken system. I support the legalization/decriminalization of many drugs too, but our Congress, the Biden administration and the DEA are too inept or corrupt to make reform a priority.
- whycome 3y ago
  Yep, we entirely agree. I think what you describe (honest ranking + relevant and contextual supports) is part of that framework. Heroin requires different supports than marijuana. And I think a big part of legalization is an emergent social aspect. Government legalization of marijuana in Canada has meant that my father has actually had real conversations about the drug instead of just treating it as evil. He's now open to using it for treatment of pain or as a means of 'relaxation'. His peers/friends are also in that group. Nothing about the drugs abilities has changed -- just his perception and ability to speak openly in his social circles.
  - zer8k 3y ago
    It's not support network it's societal harm. There are many things that were de facto "illegal" but now completely out in he open. Heroin or cocaine for example are not drugs you can support your way into safe use. The difference between weed and heroin, for example, is when someone runs out of weed historical data shows they don't kill people and commit crimes. The answer to this is not to make heroin easier to access. Then you just have a ticking time bomb you constantly reset the clock on. IMO the key is for so-called "hard drugs" to develop the corrective measures. Arrest them, but instead of throwing a simple user in jail adjudicate them into a treatment program. I've watched two people in my life go from "functional" heroin addicts (as in I couldn't outwardly tell) to missing a week of the drug and breaking into homes to steal. It is not possible to "dabble" in hard drugs like one might have a beer on the weekend or a cigar at a bar. It's 0-100. Watch interviews with former heroin addicts. Chasing the dragon starts from the first hit. Societal danger should modify the way we treat a drug. Most people agree the solution to alcoholism is not to give alcoholics more alcohol. So too, we should not be giving hard drug users more hard drugs. Treat them.
- epiccoleman 3y ago
  You wrote the comment I wanted to write, thank you. I'm generally in favor of decriminalization, but I think it's becoming increasingly obvious that the standard arguments for this position fall very flat when it comes to opioids and meth. It's a shame our leadership is so cowardly and bankrupt in this area. A simple reshuffling of the current drug scheduling could make a huge difference. Knock marijuana down a few pegs (or just accept that the country wants it legal). Take mushrooms off the schedule. Low levels for most psychedelics, mdma, etc. Slightly more control on stimulants like cocaine. Strict controls on opioids and meth. We've been examining drugs as a culture for long enough that common sense should really have pervaded at this point.

I support making drugs legal. But, it also requires an extensive framework around that legalization. Social supports. Information. Safety nets/healthcare. Without that, it's gonna fails.

unethical_ban 3y ago

I'll pick your comment out of the pack to pick on, though I think we agree. Yours, and dozens of others, talk about "drugs". That's like talking about banning "food" when there is a problem with people eating five cheeseburgers a day. --- The problem is not with cannabis, or mushrooms, or aspirin. It's with meth, heroin, fentanyl, and prescription opioids. Drugs need to be *properly* ranked by government and restricted accordingly. * How easy is it to acutely overdose on a substance? * How chemically addictive is the substance? * How damaging is chronic use of the drug over time to the body and mind? * Is there any medical benefit? The fact that cannabis is federally ranked as the most controlled level of drug in the US shows we have a broken system. I support the legalization/decriminalization of many drugs too, but our Congress, the Biden administration and the DEA are too inept or corrupt to make reform a priority.

whycome 3y ago
Yep, we entirely agree. I think what you describe (honest ranking + relevant and contextual supports) is part of that framework. Heroin requires different supports than marijuana. And I think a big part of legalization is an emergent social aspect. Government legalization of marijuana in Canada has meant that my father has actually had real conversations about the drug instead of just treating it as evil. He's now open to using it for treatment of pain or as a means of 'relaxation'. His peers/friends are also in that group. Nothing about the drugs abilities has changed -- just his perception and ability to speak openly in his social circles.
- zer8k 3y ago
  It's not support network it's societal harm. There are many things that were de facto "illegal" but now completely out in he open. Heroin or cocaine for example are not drugs you can support your way into safe use. The difference between weed and heroin, for example, is when someone runs out of weed historical data shows they don't kill people and commit crimes. The answer to this is not to make heroin easier to access. Then you just have a ticking time bomb you constantly reset the clock on. IMO the key is for so-called "hard drugs" to develop the corrective measures. Arrest them, but instead of throwing a simple user in jail adjudicate them into a treatment program. I've watched two people in my life go from "functional" heroin addicts (as in I couldn't outwardly tell) to missing a week of the drug and breaking into homes to steal. It is not possible to "dabble" in hard drugs like one might have a beer on the weekend or a cigar at a bar. It's 0-100. Watch interviews with former heroin addicts. Chasing the dragon starts from the first hit. Societal danger should modify the way we treat a drug. Most people agree the solution to alcoholism is not to give alcoholics more alcohol. So too, we should not be giving hard drug users more hard drugs. Treat them.
epiccoleman 3y ago
You wrote the comment I wanted to write, thank you. I'm generally in favor of decriminalization, but I think it's becoming increasingly obvious that the standard arguments for this position fall very flat when it comes to opioids and meth. It's a shame our leadership is so cowardly and bankrupt in this area. A simple reshuffling of the current drug scheduling could make a huge difference. Knock marijuana down a few pegs (or just accept that the country wants it legal). Take mushrooms off the schedule. Low levels for most psychedelics, mdma, etc. Slightly more control on stimulants like cocaine. Strict controls on opioids and meth. We've been examining drugs as a culture for long enough that common sense should really have pervaded at this point.