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> How about, and I'm just spit-balling here, how about we enforce laws again theft and assault and "quality of life" offenses like smoking and shooting up drug

> How about, and I'm just spit-balling here, how about we enforce laws again theft and assault and "quality of life" offenses like smoking and shooting up drugs in public parks, on sidewalks, on transit? > If someone wants to get high in their home That doesn't work in a society in which housing is not guaranteed, and in which almost all "last-resort" housing options (such as shelters) require sobriety. Achieving and maintaining sobriety without stable housing is virtually impossible, and yet somehow society expects everyone to be able to do it and then complains when this doesn't magically happen. The "tough on crime" mentality says, "well, this should give you an incentive to stop using drugs", except that attitude is completely fantastical: it goes against all clinical evidence of how substance use disorders actually work, and all empirical evidence of what resources a person needs to stop using drugs (assuming that is even the end goal, which is not a given). To spell it out: if you don't provide housing options for people who use drugs, then you will wind up with homeless people using drugs in public. And criminalizing drug use doesn't change that; it just moves those people "out of sight" to jails and prisons, where they keep using drugs, at a monetary cost to society that is literally orders of magnitude greater than the straightforward option of just giving them housing.

brightlancer 3y ago
> The "tough on crime" mentality says, "well, this should give you an incentive to stop using drugs", How many times did I have to say that I don't care if people use drugs? _I don't care if people use drugs._ I'm not interested in forcing folks into rehab. But this crap: > That doesn't work in a society in which housing is not guaranteed... > To spell it out: if you don't provide housing options for people who use drugs Is a BS excuse to let folks commit THEFT and ASSAULT because It's Really The System, or expose kids to fent smoke on the train because It's Really The System, or have kids step over zombies on the sidewalk because It's Really The System, or have children and women (and some men) harassed or threatened by crazies because It's Really The System, etc. I don't care about the drug use. I worked with homeless folks for years and most of them are not OD'ing in public parks or harassing folks on the sidewalk. Stop making excuses for criminal behavior.
- chimeracoder 3y ago
  > Is a BS excuse to let folks commit THEFT and ASSAULT because It's Really The System, or expose kids to fent smoke on the train because It's Really The System, or have kids step over zombies on the sidewalk because It's Really The System, or have children and women (and some men) harassed or threatened by crazies because It's Really The System, etc. I don't care about the drug use. I worked with homeless folks for years and most of them are not OD'ing in public parks or harassing folks on the sidewalk. Stop making excuses for criminal behavior. Your original comment literally draws a false equivalence between "theft and assault" and "smoking and shooting up drugs in public parks, on sidewalks, on transit". Here's your comment: > How about, and I'm just spit-balling here, how about we enforce laws again theft and assault and "quality of life" offenses like smoking and shooting up drugs in public parks, on sidewalks, on transit? Since the article is only talking about decriminalization of drugs (theft and assault are still criminal offenses), the only relevant difference here regards people who are using drugs in public places. It's a pretty convenient bait-and-switch that allows you to complain about people using drugs (which is neither violent nor criminal behavior), and then when people call you out on it, revert back to complaining about violent and criminal behavior, which nobody in this entire comment chain except for you is talking about. > Stop making excuses for criminal behavior. Nobody's talking about criminal behavior. We're talking about drug use, which, as discussed in the article, is not a criminal offense in Oregon.
  - brightlancer 3y ago
    > Since the article is only talking about decriminalization of drugs (theft and assault are still criminal offenses), the only relevant difference here regards people who are using drugs in public places. You should look up to the folks I was replying to: "Clearly they had the best of intentions, but Oregon's politicians are terrible at implementing anything properly. Open drug markets, increased property and retail thefts and a homeless population explosion are what happened...when <1% of people actually seek the treatment if they can even find it it causes problems." https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36959984 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36959984 Even from the article: "Earlier this year, Portland business owners appeared before the Multnomah County Commission to ask for help with crime, drug-dealing, and other problems stemming from a behavioral-health resource center operated by a harm-reduction nonprofit that was awarded more than $4 million in Measure 110 funding. ... "In a nonpartisan statewide poll earlier this year, more than 60 percent of respondents blamed Measure 110 for making drug addiction, homelessness, and crime worse." https://archive.ph/rznQr https://archive.ph/rznQr The rest of your comment is just as full of misrepresentations.

brightlancer 3y ago

> The "tough on crime" mentality says, "well, this should give you an incentive to stop using drugs", How many times did I have to say that I don't care if people use drugs? _I don't care if people use drugs._ I'm not interested in forcing folks into rehab. But this crap: > That doesn't work in a society in which housing is not guaranteed... > To spell it out: if you don't provide housing options for people who use drugs Is a BS excuse to let folks commit THEFT and ASSAULT because It's Really The System, or expose kids to fent smoke on the train because It's Really The System, or have kids step over zombies on the sidewalk because It's Really The System, or have children and women (and some men) harassed or threatened by crazies because It's Really The System, etc. I don't care about the drug use. I worked with homeless folks for years and most of them are not OD'ing in public parks or harassing folks on the sidewalk. Stop making excuses for criminal behavior.

chimeracoder 3y ago
> Is a BS excuse to let folks commit THEFT and ASSAULT because It's Really The System, or expose kids to fent smoke on the train because It's Really The System, or have kids step over zombies on the sidewalk because It's Really The System, or have children and women (and some men) harassed or threatened by crazies because It's Really The System, etc. I don't care about the drug use. I worked with homeless folks for years and most of them are not OD'ing in public parks or harassing folks on the sidewalk. Stop making excuses for criminal behavior. Your original comment literally draws a false equivalence between "theft and assault" and "smoking and shooting up drugs in public parks, on sidewalks, on transit". Here's your comment: > How about, and I'm just spit-balling here, how about we enforce laws again theft and assault and "quality of life" offenses like smoking and shooting up drugs in public parks, on sidewalks, on transit? Since the article is only talking about decriminalization of drugs (theft and assault are still criminal offenses), the only relevant difference here regards people who are using drugs in public places. It's a pretty convenient bait-and-switch that allows you to complain about people using drugs (which is neither violent nor criminal behavior), and then when people call you out on it, revert back to complaining about violent and criminal behavior, which nobody in this entire comment chain except for you is talking about. > Stop making excuses for criminal behavior. Nobody's talking about criminal behavior. We're talking about drug use, which, as discussed in the article, is not a criminal offense in Oregon.
- brightlancer 3y ago
  > Since the article is only talking about decriminalization of drugs (theft and assault are still criminal offenses), the only relevant difference here regards people who are using drugs in public places. You should look up to the folks I was replying to: "Clearly they had the best of intentions, but Oregon's politicians are terrible at implementing anything properly. Open drug markets, increased property and retail thefts and a homeless population explosion are what happened...when <1% of people actually seek the treatment if they can even find it it causes problems." https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36959984 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36959984 Even from the article: "Earlier this year, Portland business owners appeared before the Multnomah County Commission to ask for help with crime, drug-dealing, and other problems stemming from a behavioral-health resource center operated by a harm-reduction nonprofit that was awarded more than $4 million in Measure 110 funding. ... "In a nonpartisan statewide poll earlier this year, more than 60 percent of respondents blamed Measure 110 for making drug addiction, homelessness, and crime worse." https://archive.ph/rznQr https://archive.ph/rznQr The rest of your comment is just as full of misrepresentations.