6 ms·

The United States is constantly at war. If spying prevents war, it's not working. LOL...

by bill_joy_fanboy 3y ago

astrange 3y ago
No, we're not in a war. Thanks Biden. What's your counterfactual?
- monocasa 3y ago
  Proxy wars are still wars.
  - astrange 3y ago
    Tell that to all our infantry who aren't in any danger. Selling used military equipment is not being at war.
    - solardev 3y ago
      US weapons, US intel, US alliances and organizations... I doubt Russia looks at it and thinks "Oh, OK, the US is totally not involved. They're our friends!" Even when we're not actively sending troops, we're busy making enemies for the next war...
      - red-iron-pine 3y ago
        they regularly declared the US was their primary enemy well before invading Ukraine, and actively leveraged aggressive information and political influence operations to destabilize the US there is no "making enemies for the next war" -- they were always enemies
    - mistermann 3y ago
      Tell this to the loved ones left behind by those killed in "not war".
      - astrange 3y ago
        Who?
    - Zircom 3y ago
      They've just off-shored the lives lost. It's not any different than off-shoring manufacturing and poisoning some third world country with the waste chemicals and runoff instead of the homeland.
      - astrange 3y ago
        The lives are being lost because Russians are shooting at them. They're the ones who decided to do that.
  - myko 3y ago
    "Proxy war" implies the US put Ukraine up to this. The US did not. Russia put Ukraine up to it by invading them.
    - monocasa 3y ago
      The US has had a heavy hand in this situation for a decade. You can argue that it's the right thing to do, but it's not like the US just got involved once Russia invaded.
      - _kbh_ 3y ago
        > The US has had a heavy hand in this situation for a decade. You can argue that it's the right thing to do, but it's not like the US just got involved once Russia invaded. It’s worth remembering that this war actually started close to a decade ago and not in 2022. Based on that it does sound like the US got involved around the time Russia invaded.
        monocasa 3y ago
        I mean, a decade ago Ukraine was de facto Russian territory.
        myko 3y ago
        If by that you mean Paul Manafort helped install a Russian puppet as president who was ousted by the Ukrainian people, then you could argue that, but Ukraine is a sovereign and has been since the 90s. Your argument is the same as Putin's, claiming it isn't an invasion because Ukraine is Russia's!
- bill_joy_fanboy 3y ago
  This has gotta be the most intellectually dishonest comment I've ever read. Nobody trusts U.S. intelligence agencies anymore, bro. Whatever.
lesuorac 3y ago
You may want to look up WW1 & WW2 or even Ukraine ... The US isn't in war. No declarations have been made. No draft is required. No war shortages exist.
- solardev 3y ago
  Oh, man, is this what the future looks like? We provide the weapons, get other countries to do the fighting, wash our hands clean of the whole thing and call our global adventures not-wars as long as we can still buy gas and toilet paper? Somehow, this euphemistic imperialism of proxy wars feels even sketchier... at least the old empires were honest about their intent. Today it's Ukraine, tomorrow Taiwan, and then what, back to the Koreas and the Middle East? Our constant involvement in cyclical non-wars sure doesn't feel the same as "peace" to me. Maybe that word just doesn't mean what I think it does anymore. Or maybe we have our tentacles in so many places that warmaking and peacemaking have become indistinguishable. I guess as long as it's not Americans in body bags, we're in the clear? The world is our mercenary. But even that won't last long, I'm willing to bet. The world's not getting any stabler, and our competitors aren't just sitting idle.
  - owenmarshall 3y ago
    > I guess as long as it's not Americans in body bags, we're in the clear? More American private military contractors died in Afghanistan than American military. I don't think anyone noticed. So I'd amend that to "American troops in body bags".
  - lesuorac 3y ago
    You can call a spade a spade but if you did a hole with a backhoe that backhole doesn't magically become a spade. I'm a bit confused on how you think the USA got Ukraine to do the fighting considering Russia invaded (did USA pay off Russia to invade?). But regardless, yes Ukraine is at war and USA is not. It's just like if I drove to the dry cleaners and had them wash something. I didn't wash it; I'm not a dry cleaner. Playing the dry cleaners money or etc doesn't change that fact. > Our constant involvement in cyclical non-wars sure doesn't feel the same as "peace" to me. Maybe that word just doesn't mean what I think it does anymore I mean my whole argument is that you're using war to describe something that isn't so I guess this makes two of us. > Or maybe we have our tentacles in so many places that warmaking and peacemaking have become indistinguishable. Yes, because the USA is not at war. Russia warmakes with Ukraine so Ru & UA are at war and efforts by other countries China/USA/etc would likely be peacemaking efforts because China/USA/etc aren't at war. If USA declared war on Russia then it'd be a warmaking effort. > The world is our mercenary. Which countries did the USA hire to fight another one? That's also a word not being used correctly.

The United States is constantly at war. If spying prevents war, it's not working. LOL...

astrange 3y ago

No, we're not in a war. Thanks Biden. What's your counterfactual?

monocasa 3y ago
Proxy wars are still wars.
- astrange 3y ago
  Tell that to all our infantry who aren't in any danger. Selling used military equipment is not being at war.
  - solardev 3y ago
    US weapons, US intel, US alliances and organizations... I doubt Russia looks at it and thinks "Oh, OK, the US is totally not involved. They're our friends!" Even when we're not actively sending troops, we're busy making enemies for the next war...
    - red-iron-pine 3y ago
      they regularly declared the US was their primary enemy well before invading Ukraine, and actively leveraged aggressive information and political influence operations to destabilize the US there is no "making enemies for the next war" -- they were always enemies
  - mistermann 3y ago
    Tell this to the loved ones left behind by those killed in "not war".
    - astrange 3y ago
      Who?
  - Zircom 3y ago
    They've just off-shored the lives lost. It's not any different than off-shoring manufacturing and poisoning some third world country with the waste chemicals and runoff instead of the homeland.
    - astrange 3y ago
      The lives are being lost because Russians are shooting at them. They're the ones who decided to do that.
- myko 3y ago
  "Proxy war" implies the US put Ukraine up to this. The US did not. Russia put Ukraine up to it by invading them.
  - monocasa 3y ago
    The US has had a heavy hand in this situation for a decade. You can argue that it's the right thing to do, but it's not like the US just got involved once Russia invaded.
    - _kbh_ 3y ago
      > The US has had a heavy hand in this situation for a decade. You can argue that it's the right thing to do, but it's not like the US just got involved once Russia invaded. It’s worth remembering that this war actually started close to a decade ago and not in 2022. Based on that it does sound like the US got involved around the time Russia invaded.
      - monocasa 3y ago
        I mean, a decade ago Ukraine was de facto Russian territory.
        myko 3y ago
        If by that you mean Paul Manafort helped install a Russian puppet as president who was ousted by the Ukrainian people, then you could argue that, but Ukraine is a sovereign and has been since the 90s. Your argument is the same as Putin's, claiming it isn't an invasion because Ukraine is Russia's!
bill_joy_fanboy 3y ago
This has gotta be the most intellectually dishonest comment I've ever read. Nobody trusts U.S. intelligence agencies anymore, bro. Whatever.

lesuorac 3y ago

You may want to look up WW1 & WW2 or even Ukraine ... The US isn't in war. No declarations have been made. No draft is required. No war shortages exist.

solardev 3y ago
Oh, man, is this what the future looks like? We provide the weapons, get other countries to do the fighting, wash our hands clean of the whole thing and call our global adventures not-wars as long as we can still buy gas and toilet paper? Somehow, this euphemistic imperialism of proxy wars feels even sketchier... at least the old empires were honest about their intent. Today it's Ukraine, tomorrow Taiwan, and then what, back to the Koreas and the Middle East? Our constant involvement in cyclical non-wars sure doesn't feel the same as "peace" to me. Maybe that word just doesn't mean what I think it does anymore. Or maybe we have our tentacles in so many places that warmaking and peacemaking have become indistinguishable. I guess as long as it's not Americans in body bags, we're in the clear? The world is our mercenary. But even that won't last long, I'm willing to bet. The world's not getting any stabler, and our competitors aren't just sitting idle.
- owenmarshall 3y ago
  > I guess as long as it's not Americans in body bags, we're in the clear? More American private military contractors died in Afghanistan than American military. I don't think anyone noticed. So I'd amend that to "American troops in body bags".
- lesuorac 3y ago
  You can call a spade a spade but if you did a hole with a backhoe that backhole doesn't magically become a spade. I'm a bit confused on how you think the USA got Ukraine to do the fighting considering Russia invaded (did USA pay off Russia to invade?). But regardless, yes Ukraine is at war and USA is not. It's just like if I drove to the dry cleaners and had them wash something. I didn't wash it; I'm not a dry cleaner. Playing the dry cleaners money or etc doesn't change that fact. > Our constant involvement in cyclical non-wars sure doesn't feel the same as "peace" to me. Maybe that word just doesn't mean what I think it does anymore I mean my whole argument is that you're using war to describe something that isn't so I guess this makes two of us. > Or maybe we have our tentacles in so many places that warmaking and peacemaking have become indistinguishable. Yes, because the USA is not at war. Russia warmakes with Ukraine so Ru & UA are at war and efforts by other countries China/USA/etc would likely be peacemaking efforts because China/USA/etc aren't at war. If USA declared war on Russia then it'd be a warmaking effort. > The world is our mercenary. Which countries did the USA hire to fight another one? That's also a word not being used correctly.