5 ms·

I don’t have any evidence to back this feeling up so take it with a grain of salt: San Francisco has a drug problem simply because it’s one of few places in the

by ecf 3y ago

I don’t have any evidence to back this feeling up so take it with a grain of salt: San Francisco has a drug problem simply because it’s one of few places in the country where it’s safe to have a drug problem. Other states pay for addicts/homeless to be shipped off to California and all of a sudden it becomes our taxpayer problem. If drugs were legalized country-wide then SF wouldn’t have the concentration it does and it would seem like a nice place.

burkaman 3y ago
This is a common theory but it isn't true. There are a lot of homeless people in San Fransisco because there are a lot of people there and it's hard to afford a home. From a huge recent survey of homelessness in California: > Nine out of ten participants lost their last housing in California; 75% of participants lived in the same county as their last housing. https://homelessness.ucsf.edu/sites/default/files/2023-06/CASPEH_Executive_Summary_62023.pdf https://homelessness.ucsf.edu/sites/default/files/2023-06/CA...
- cyberax 3y ago
  This data is st00pid. It relies on self-reporting, and the questions are coached to get the "required" result. A while ago I did an experiment, I found the list of people convicted for typical "homeless" crimes in SF, and did a background search on them. About 90% had extensive crime records in other states, far away from CA. This is not a definitive result for sure, but it's suggestive.
  - coding123 3y ago
    Either you are lying or the mainstream media is lying. I am not having ANY luck with mainstream media, but I can't just trust you either. Show me your data.
    - cyberax 3y ago
      Here ya go: https://www.sfchronicle.com/sf/article/san-francisco-drug-tourism-arrests-tenderloin-18156424.php https://www.sfchronicle.com/sf/article/san-francisco-drug-to... > Nearly 95% of people arrested for drug use in San Francisco since May 30 are from out of town, Police Chief Bill Scott said at a public hearing this week, corroborating perceptions that many residents already have — that their city has become a magnet for the narcotics trade. Honestly, just do the same exercise, get the booking records from jails and run background search on the names.
      - burkaman 3y ago
        1. Police routinely lie. 2. Even if you believe them, this is about who they chose to arrest during a two week period in one small neighborhood. You can't get any more cherry-picked than that. 3. This doesn't even mention homeless people.
        cyberax 3y ago
        Yeah, yeah, yeah. Homeless in SF are just people who got evicted because the rent is 5% too high. Of course. > 2. Even if you believe them, this is about who they chose to arrest during a two week period in one small neighborhood. You can't get any more cherry-picked than that. > 3. This doesn't even mention homeless people. Do you know what "Tenderloin" is in SF?
- nvrmnd 3y ago
  My understanding is that "living in the same county as your last housing" can mean that you moved to California with enough money to rent a room for a month before running out. Though, I have seen many other surveys that do indicate that most unhoused individuals have lived in the area for an extended period before factors forced them out (https://www.nytimes.com/2019/11/06/us/homeless-population.html https://www.nytimes.com/2019/11/06/us/homeless-population.ht...). In any event, I feel that metric used by UCSF is really not a good one to the point where it's almost dishonest. It's not hard to come up with questions that do a better job at trying to answer whether CA is burdened by individuals moving from out-of-state to make use of more generous social programs and/or lax drug policy.
Hermitian909 3y ago
> Other states pay for addicts/homeless to be shipped off to California This has happened but it's not substantial, most homeless in CA were living here and homed before becoming homeless[0] > San Francisco has a drug problem simply because it’s one of few places in the country where it’s safe to have a drug problem I've spent a lot of time volunteering with the homeless in SF. This doesn't match the data or anecdotal experience. Many drug addicts follow the path of becoming homeless (overwhelmingly because of cost of living) and transitioning into hard drugs to cope with the pain of living on the street. [0] https://homelessness.ucsf.edu/our-impact/our-studies/california-statewide-study-people-experiencing-homelessness https://homelessness.ucsf.edu/our-impact/our-studies/califor...
2OEH8eoCRo0 3y ago
> If drugs were legalized country-wide No thank you. I don't want to catch what SF has. I'll vote against anyone who suggests we need to legalize in my area.
- anon84873628 3y ago
  Then make sure you also vote for the people who want to build more housing.
  - 2OEH8eoCRo0 3y ago
    More single family homes? Sure. Low income housing? Nah
    - r2_pilot 3y ago
      I'm not sure I follow your reasoning. If someone is rich enough to have a 3 bedroom detached home, that's all fine and dandy, but it's a complete nonstarter to house 30 poor people in the same space? I don't see how that solution reduces or solves homelessness for low-income individuals, who may not be able to afford much more than a single apartment. I suggest having more empathy for people in different circumstances; one day you might find yourself needing just a cheap roof over your head and I hope that you never do. If so, though, I hope that (against your stated preferences) you find shelter, because all humans should have that basic need.
    - RoyalHenOil 3y ago
      So you want more homelessness then? Got it.

by ecf 3y ago

burkaman 3y ago

This is a common theory but it isn't true. There are a lot of homeless people in San Fransisco because there are a lot of people there and it's hard to afford a home. From a huge recent survey of homelessness in California: > Nine out of ten participants lost their last housing in California; 75% of participants lived in the same county as their last housing. https://homelessness.ucsf.edu/sites/default/files/2023-06/CASPEH_Executive_Summary_62023.pdf https://homelessness.ucsf.edu/sites/default/files/2023-06/CA...

cyberax 3y ago
This data is st00pid. It relies on self-reporting, and the questions are coached to get the "required" result. A while ago I did an experiment, I found the list of people convicted for typical "homeless" crimes in SF, and did a background search on them. About 90% had extensive crime records in other states, far away from CA. This is not a definitive result for sure, but it's suggestive.
- coding123 3y ago
  Either you are lying or the mainstream media is lying. I am not having ANY luck with mainstream media, but I can't just trust you either. Show me your data.
  - cyberax 3y ago
    Here ya go: https://www.sfchronicle.com/sf/article/san-francisco-drug-tourism-arrests-tenderloin-18156424.php https://www.sfchronicle.com/sf/article/san-francisco-drug-to... > Nearly 95% of people arrested for drug use in San Francisco since May 30 are from out of town, Police Chief Bill Scott said at a public hearing this week, corroborating perceptions that many residents already have — that their city has become a magnet for the narcotics trade. Honestly, just do the same exercise, get the booking records from jails and run background search on the names.
    - burkaman 3y ago
      1. Police routinely lie. 2. Even if you believe them, this is about who they chose to arrest during a two week period in one small neighborhood. You can't get any more cherry-picked than that. 3. This doesn't even mention homeless people.
      - cyberax 3y ago
        Yeah, yeah, yeah. Homeless in SF are just people who got evicted because the rent is 5% too high. Of course. > 2. Even if you believe them, this is about who they chose to arrest during a two week period in one small neighborhood. You can't get any more cherry-picked than that. > 3. This doesn't even mention homeless people. Do you know what "Tenderloin" is in SF?
nvrmnd 3y ago
My understanding is that "living in the same county as your last housing" can mean that you moved to California with enough money to rent a room for a month before running out. Though, I have seen many other surveys that do indicate that most unhoused individuals have lived in the area for an extended period before factors forced them out (https://www.nytimes.com/2019/11/06/us/homeless-population.html https://www.nytimes.com/2019/11/06/us/homeless-population.ht...). In any event, I feel that metric used by UCSF is really not a good one to the point where it's almost dishonest. It's not hard to come up with questions that do a better job at trying to answer whether CA is burdened by individuals moving from out-of-state to make use of more generous social programs and/or lax drug policy.

Hermitian909 3y ago

> Other states pay for addicts/homeless to be shipped off to California This has happened but it's not substantial, most homeless in CA were living here and homed before becoming homeless[0] > San Francisco has a drug problem simply because it’s one of few places in the country where it’s safe to have a drug problem I've spent a lot of time volunteering with the homeless in SF. This doesn't match the data or anecdotal experience. Many drug addicts follow the path of becoming homeless (overwhelmingly because of cost of living) and transitioning into hard drugs to cope with the pain of living on the street. [0] https://homelessness.ucsf.edu/our-impact/our-studies/california-statewide-study-people-experiencing-homelessness https://homelessness.ucsf.edu/our-impact/our-studies/califor...

2OEH8eoCRo0 3y ago

> If drugs were legalized country-wide No thank you. I don't want to catch what SF has. I'll vote against anyone who suggests we need to legalize in my area.

anon84873628 3y ago
Then make sure you also vote for the people who want to build more housing.
- 2OEH8eoCRo0 3y ago
  More single family homes? Sure. Low income housing? Nah
  - r2_pilot 3y ago
    I'm not sure I follow your reasoning. If someone is rich enough to have a 3 bedroom detached home, that's all fine and dandy, but it's a complete nonstarter to house 30 poor people in the same space? I don't see how that solution reduces or solves homelessness for low-income individuals, who may not be able to afford much more than a single apartment. I suggest having more empathy for people in different circumstances; one day you might find yourself needing just a cheap roof over your head and I hope that you never do. If so, though, I hope that (against your stated preferences) you find shelter, because all humans should have that basic need.
  - RoyalHenOil 3y ago
    So you want more homelessness then? Got it.