3 ms·

> It's about acknowledging that economic disparities and systemic challenges can limit the bargaining power of certain individuals, making it difficult for them

> It's about acknowledging that economic disparities and systemic challenges can limit the bargaining power of certain individuals, making it difficult for them to negotiate for fair wages and better working conditions. It is never difficult to negotiate a fair wage. Tricking someone into paying an unfair wage, where you see greater value than you give back in return, is a lot harder. But that questions: Have you actually tricked them, or was the agreement fair all along? The reality is that any offer that is considered unfair, by either side, is rejected and a transaction never takes place. When an agreement is made, it is always considered fair. You, fundamentally, cannot work for someone for an unfair wage. That is, assuming involved parties are holding true to the agreement made. If someone is not holding up their end of the bargain then that would be unfair, but that also introduces debt... > It is important to recognize that the labor market is not a perfect representation of resource allocation. There is no importance to that statement at all. It is a true statement, but it doesn't have any bearing on the conversation. > The concept of "scarcity" in this context does not equate to the value of human labor or the potential contributions individuals can make to society. The perception of scarcity is what drives the perceived value of human labour. If I think I can put out a job ad and see a thousand great people line up for a chance at the job, I'm not going to find much value in the work. If I think there is only one person in the world who can suitably do the job, and every other company wants to hire them too, I know it is going to take one hell of an offer to compel them in my direction. Which brings us back to the first comment in this thread (the one before my first). That is exactly what they stated. If you think they mischaracterized the state of the world, you should take it up with them. These circles you keep us running around in are pointless.

lossolo 3y ago
Ah, the same old rhetoric of denying economic disparities and systemic challenges that clearly impact workers bargaining power. You seem so eager to downplay the struggles faced by certain individuals, but let's not pretend negotiating a fair wage is a walk in the park. Sure, you keep harping on about not tricking someone into accepting an unfair wage, but the reality is far from your idealistic view. Many workers, especially those facing economic vulnerabilities, have no choice but to accept whatever is offered, even if it falls short of fair compensation. And don't give me that "transaction never takes place" nonsense, exploitative agreements happen all the time, whether you care to acknowledge it or not. And don't use words like NEVER and FUNDAMENTALLY, unless you think that labor relation between slave and master in slavery period was a fair transaction, do you? As for your dismissive attitude towards the importance of the labor market's representation of resource allocation, it just shows your lack of understanding. While it might not fit neatly into your narrow worldview, it's crucial to recognize the market's influence on labor value and the allocation of resources. Don't believe me? Here, educate yourself by reading these two reports from OECD and ILO with data and sources to research: https://www.ilo.org/wcmsp5/groups/public/---ed_norm/---relconf/documents/meetingdocument/wcms_792123.pdf https://www.ilo.org/wcmsp5/groups/public/---ed_norm/---relco... https://one.oecd.org/document/DAF/COMP/WD(2019)43/en/pdf https://one.oecd.org/document/DAF/COMP/WD(2019)43/en/pdf Things like economic disparities and systemic challenges in context of labor that I mentioned so many times and that you dismissed are discussed there and supported by data. And don't even get me started on your skewed perception of scarcity. Yes, supply and demand play a role, but that doesn't negate the fact that unfair practices can still arise, leaving workers struggling while companies rake in massive profits. But I guess it's too much for you to grasp that concept. You keep going in circles, pointing fingers at the initial comment as if it's some holy truth. Well, newsflash: discussions evolve, and we're addressing a broader issue here. If you can't keep up and insist on your one-track mind, then by all means, spare us your pointless circles and let those who are genuinely interested in understanding the complexities have a meaningful conversation.

lossolo 3y ago

Ah, the same old rhetoric of denying economic disparities and systemic challenges that clearly impact workers bargaining power. You seem so eager to downplay the struggles faced by certain individuals, but let's not pretend negotiating a fair wage is a walk in the park. Sure, you keep harping on about not tricking someone into accepting an unfair wage, but the reality is far from your idealistic view. Many workers, especially those facing economic vulnerabilities, have no choice but to accept whatever is offered, even if it falls short of fair compensation. And don't give me that "transaction never takes place" nonsense, exploitative agreements happen all the time, whether you care to acknowledge it or not. And don't use words like NEVER and FUNDAMENTALLY, unless you think that labor relation between slave and master in slavery period was a fair transaction, do you? As for your dismissive attitude towards the importance of the labor market's representation of resource allocation, it just shows your lack of understanding. While it might not fit neatly into your narrow worldview, it's crucial to recognize the market's influence on labor value and the allocation of resources. Don't believe me? Here, educate yourself by reading these two reports from OECD and ILO with data and sources to research: https://www.ilo.org/wcmsp5/groups/public/---ed_norm/---relconf/documents/meetingdocument/wcms_792123.pdf https://www.ilo.org/wcmsp5/groups/public/---ed_norm/---relco... https://one.oecd.org/document/DAF/COMP/WD(2019)43/en/pdf https://one.oecd.org/document/DAF/COMP/WD(2019)43/en/pdf Things like economic disparities and systemic challenges in context of labor that I mentioned so many times and that you dismissed are discussed there and supported by data. And don't even get me started on your skewed perception of scarcity. Yes, supply and demand play a role, but that doesn't negate the fact that unfair practices can still arise, leaving workers struggling while companies rake in massive profits. But I guess it's too much for you to grasp that concept. You keep going in circles, pointing fingers at the initial comment as if it's some holy truth. Well, newsflash: discussions evolve, and we're addressing a broader issue here. If you can't keep up and insist on your one-track mind, then by all means, spare us your pointless circles and let those who are genuinely interested in understanding the complexities have a meaningful conversation.