4 ms·

I'm kind of a privacy freak too, but I actually don't would not and do not mind telemetry in OSS that are transparent about it. I send metrics about archlinux,

by agilob 3y ago

I'm kind of a privacy freak too, but I actually don't would not and do not mind telemetry in OSS that are transparent about it. I send metrics about archlinux, plasma, firefox or syncthing: check this out https://data.syncthing.net/ https://data.syncthing.net/ I wouldn't mind transparent and honest telemetry in other tools like rustc or even vim. I don't see losing anything by sending my screen resolution and version of Xorg or Wayland. How is my privacy betrayed by this? I don't see what am I losing here, how am I betrayed, but I understand that these metrics will help make the tools better, give data to intelligent developers what to work on, what features are used more frequently. I think the word telemetry is associated with bad vibes thanks to Microsoft and Google abusing telemetry, having it opt-out by default or giving users no control over it. For opensource tools we should use another word like "Automated User Feedback", or something else without the baggage.

yjftsjthsd-h 3y ago
> having it opt-in by default or giving users no control over it. I think you want "opt-out"? > For opensource tools we should use another word like "Automated User Feedback", or something else without the baggage. No, because some projects will immediately re-poison the well by using "Automated User Feedback" as a transparent euphemism for the same bad practices (and in fact, if I read that I would immediately assume it was nothing but a euphemism meant to mislead me). Might as well just say "opt-in telemetry" or maybe "opt-in telemetry with extra steps to make it less identifiable" if that's what we mean.
mike_hock 3y ago
No, we should not invent a euphemism to dodge the bad associations with the real thing. There's no such thing as "being transparent" about telemetry in OSS because I don't feel like reading a README for every single command that I apt install to see if it has anti-features.
amiga386 3y ago
> we should use another word like "Automated User Feedback", or something else without the baggage. Edward Bernays, propagandist, famously coined the term "Public Relations" to give propaganda a new name without the baggage the Germans gave it. https://youtu.be/DnPmg0R1M04?t=486 https://youtu.be/DnPmg0R1M04?t=486 Telemetry, and the "baggage" associated with it, is the right word. We could be _more_ pejorative and call it "spying" or "tattling", but "telemetry" will do.
JohnFen 3y ago
> I wouldn't mind transparent and honest telemetry in other tools like rustc or even vim Me neither, as long as it is voluntary and requires an action on my part for it to happen.

by agilob 3y ago

yjftsjthsd-h 3y ago

> having it opt-in by default or giving users no control over it. I think you want "opt-out"? > For opensource tools we should use another word like "Automated User Feedback", or something else without the baggage. No, because some projects will immediately re-poison the well by using "Automated User Feedback" as a transparent euphemism for the same bad practices (and in fact, if I read that I would immediately assume it was nothing but a euphemism meant to mislead me). Might as well just say "opt-in telemetry" or maybe "opt-in telemetry with extra steps to make it less identifiable" if that's what we mean.

mike_hock 3y ago

No, we should not invent a euphemism to dodge the bad associations with the real thing. There's no such thing as "being transparent" about telemetry in OSS because I don't feel like reading a README for every single command that I apt install to see if it has anti-features.

amiga386 3y ago

> we should use another word like "Automated User Feedback", or something else without the baggage. Edward Bernays, propagandist, famously coined the term "Public Relations" to give propaganda a new name without the baggage the Germans gave it. https://youtu.be/DnPmg0R1M04?t=486 https://youtu.be/DnPmg0R1M04?t=486 Telemetry, and the "baggage" associated with it, is the right word. We could be _more_ pejorative and call it "spying" or "tattling", but "telemetry" will do.

JohnFen 3y ago

> I wouldn't mind transparent and honest telemetry in other tools like rustc or even vim Me neither, as long as it is voluntary and requires an action on my part for it to happen.