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Sunak’s family firm signed deal with BP before opening new North Sea licences

139 points by ThePowerOfFuet 3y ago

usbakimbo 3y ago
Unbelievably corrupt
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
- OhMeadhbh 3y ago
  I think they're believably corrupt. In the old days we were okay with about 10% corruption in the states. But that was the old-school "bribe me to get something done" type of corruption. We've moved past that now and have more of a "we're only going to tell people we like what the true requirements are so only they will be successful in their bids" type of corruption. The problem with this style is it's hard to measure the financial impact. Maybe that's why we do it that way. (clearly talking about the states here... my exposure to illicit payments to government officials in the UK is limited.)
gumballindie 3y ago
They also reinstated IR35 regulation that favours his wife’s Infosys outsourcing firm. The UK is such a dysfunctional country that I wouldnt be surprised if the government would simply decriminalise corruption and influence peddling in particular. The latter is illegal but barely enforced. I predict that if the situation continues the country will simply implode. The left will no doubt blame Brexit, but the left is equally incompetent to the ruling right (if not more, since their go to solution is even higher tax hikes).
- mrd3v0 3y ago
  Two-party "democracy" gave the UK a decade of ill-represented government. The switch from FPTP to a proportional ranked voting system needs to happen for its democracy to be sustain itself in the future.
  - whimsicalism 3y ago
    Even more impactful imo would be having a primaries system rather than centralized decisions about who gets to run under what label. Nothing like this is possible in the US: https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-65102128 https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-65102128
  - tomp 3y ago
    The issue with the UK is that the opposition is even worse. Proportional voting doesn’t change that.
    - dragonwriter 3y ago
      > The issue with the UK is that the opposition is even worse. > Proportional voting doesn’t change that. Yes, it does. That is, proportional electoral systems increase the diversity of viable and represented parties, so if “the opposition” is bad in an FPTP system with the narrow set of parties it supports (can be as small as two, but regional dynamics will sometimes make it more nationally), proportional representation very much is a solution.
  - dragonwriter 3y ago
    > Two-party “democracy” gave the UK a decade of ill-represented government. There are 11 parties represented (12 that have won seats, but Sinn Fein is Sinn Fein), not counting independents, in the House of Commons. > The switch from FPTP to a proportional ranked voting system needs to happen for its democracy to be sustain itself in the future. Don’t disagree with this, though.
  - penguin_booze 3y ago
    For anyone wondering, FPTP is https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First-past-the-post_voting https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First-past-the-post_voting.
- localplume 3y ago
  [dead]
samwillis 3y ago
As much as I don't trust the current and recent crop of senior UK government politicians, this is a editorialised title. The company, Infosys is his father in laws (his wife does have shares), and as far as I can see there is no link between this IT contract and North Sea oil rights. But maybe I'm wrong and it a simple bribe, but I doubt it. Fundamentally though, a billionaire should not be a political leader, too much opportunity of corruption or the appearance of it.
- r_thambapillai 3y ago
  Its super unlikely to be a direct bribe, I think that much is fair to say. But I think viewed differently, the article is saying: Sunak's family has a tremendous interest in BP and Shell needing consulting services. Might this have an indirect effect on Sunak's willingness to legislate in ways that are highly likely to increase the amount of consulting services BP and Shell need? Its not bribery, by any means, but I think its definitely noteworthy that these pressures / considerations may be involved
  - slantedview 3y ago
    Bribery doesn't need to be direct for it to be bribery. And in this case no bribes are even needed since Sunak can benefit from his own decision.
- OhMeadhbh 3y ago
  Heck. I had to pass on a couple deals because I have family members in California government. Guess that's not a problem if you're a Trump or a Sunak.
- oxfordmale 3y ago
  This is how business gets done in the UK. There is nothing legally wrong about this. However, it is clear that Rishi has a personal pro oil interest. This may well align with his political ideology, but it does give the appearance of a conflict of interest.
- schnable 3y ago
mattzito 3y ago
This feels like a nothingburger: - Infosys already had a $100m/year contract with BP - the new contract is 1.5b over 10 years, so a significant increase, but as part of the contract infosys becomes the primary IT partner for BP, therefore not an unimaginable increase - Infosys's customers include Shell, Aramco, Chevron, and others. They're one of the top IT services company for the energy industry, so this isn't an outlandish customer for them to have - Infosys's revenue in 2021 was $12b, making this contract ~1% of their annual revenue. The net increase over their previous contract is .4% In short, this looks like a fairly standard contract from a provider that was already heavily represented in the industry and has an existing substantial investment with the customer - and one that doesn't materially impact the trajectory of the company. Other than the timing of the events, there doesn't seem to be anything to suggest inappropriate actions on anyone's part.
- toyg 3y ago
  But that's the structural problem with the likes of Sunak being in government: maybe it's all legitimate business, but because of his role it looks bad, and there is no real way to prove it one way or the other. An honourable person would recuse himself from situations where even the suggestion of impropriety is possible. Sunak should not have been PM to start with.
  - rayiner 3y ago
    [flagged]
    - olddustytrail 3y ago
      It's astonishing that you think that ordinary people in first world countries are "unsuccessful".
      - Valodim 3y ago
        It seems fair to compare to folks from the same country in this context, no?
boeingUH60 3y ago
This is outrage clickbait for the gullible. Infosys already had BP as a major customer for a long time. > The CEO of one of Infosys' other major clients, Shell, also joined Rishi Sunak's new business council two weeks ago. Gasp, CEO of one of biggest oil companies joined a Prime Minister's business council...call the cops! Again, Infosys had already worked with Shell for a long time. Have a look at other articles on this website...it's an outrage blog designed to extract money by playing with people's emotions and intellect. The kind of "journalists" that deserve to be permanently laid off.
0xDEF 3y ago
To combat climate change we have to lower our use of oil and natural gas but it is preferable that we control our own supply during the transition period instead of being dependent on geopolitical adversaries like Russia and "frenemies" like Saudi Arabia. Also it's probably a reach to claim that an Indian IT outsourcing bodyshop made the UK drill for oil and natural gas in the North Sea.
zh3 3y ago
I've seen (in one case personally) plenty of cases of councils being taking for a ride (quite possibly by private jet), e.g. case below on the BBC recently. Thurrock Council "invested" £655m in solar farms which then went on luxury goods ("including a yacht and a private jet"). The council ended up bankrupt (to be bailed out by the taxpayer). At government level, it tends to be less obvious. I often wonder about how the honest people in government carry on, being close to the action (maybe like working for an aid agency and having to accept that X percentage of the aid is going to be diverted along the way). https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-66340991 https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-66340991 Edit: in the same vein, I see "War is a racket" has been submitted today. [0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36960480 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36960480
Thoeu388 3y ago
[dead]
saos 3y ago
The level of corruption in the U.K is just fascinating. As Brit I can only laugh. I do fear next election and that general public will continue to vote for which ever party keeps their house price high
- extasia 3y ago
  I agree with your last point. How do we fix this problem though?
  - slj 3y ago
    The abolition of private property ought to do it
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
cowpig 3y ago
Apparently many of the commenters here are not familiar with the concept of a blind trust[0] or of people in positions of power recusing themselves from decisions in which they have a conflict of interest[1]. Basically, working in positions of governmental power should not have any kind of financial interest in anything they have power over, otherwise it will muddy their ability to govern in a way that is the best interest of the public. I'm a bit disturbed that this is not common, accepted knowledge. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blind_trust https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blind_trust [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Judicial_disqualification https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Judicial_disqualification
- tgv 3y ago
  Blind trust doesn't work. It's a smokescreen. If your political actions improve your stock value, that increase will still be there when you step down. Sunak's wife is the daughter of the Infosys founder. According to Wikipedia: > She holds a 0.93-per-cent stake in Infosys, along with shares in several other British businesses
OJFord 3y ago
'A company founded by his father in law' is not '[his] family firm', the article doesn't improve from there. Whoever heard of 'The London Economic' anyway? Seems like a digital tabloid. Flagged because of above, and I can't see what decent discussion can possibly be had between the inevitable political flaming.
Abel54 3y ago
Thanks for sharing.
- Abel54 3y ago
  [dead]

Unbelievably corrupt

deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
OhMeadhbh 3y ago
I think they're believably corrupt. In the old days we were okay with about 10% corruption in the states. But that was the old-school "bribe me to get something done" type of corruption. We've moved past that now and have more of a "we're only going to tell people we like what the true requirements are so only they will be successful in their bids" type of corruption. The problem with this style is it's hard to measure the financial impact. Maybe that's why we do it that way. (clearly talking about the states here... my exposure to illicit payments to government officials in the UK is limited.)

They also reinstated IR35 regulation that favours his wife’s Infosys outsourcing firm. The UK is such a dysfunctional country that I wouldnt be surprised if the government would simply decriminalise corruption and influence peddling in particular. The latter is illegal but barely enforced. I predict that if the situation continues the country will simply implode. The left will no doubt blame Brexit, but the left is equally incompetent to the ruling right (if not more, since their go to solution is even higher tax hikes).

mrd3v0 3y ago
Two-party "democracy" gave the UK a decade of ill-represented government. The switch from FPTP to a proportional ranked voting system needs to happen for its democracy to be sustain itself in the future.
- whimsicalism 3y ago
  Even more impactful imo would be having a primaries system rather than centralized decisions about who gets to run under what label. Nothing like this is possible in the US: https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-65102128 https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-65102128
- tomp 3y ago
  The issue with the UK is that the opposition is even worse. Proportional voting doesn’t change that.
  - dragonwriter 3y ago
    > The issue with the UK is that the opposition is even worse. > Proportional voting doesn’t change that. Yes, it does. That is, proportional electoral systems increase the diversity of viable and represented parties, so if “the opposition” is bad in an FPTP system with the narrow set of parties it supports (can be as small as two, but regional dynamics will sometimes make it more nationally), proportional representation very much is a solution.
- dragonwriter 3y ago
  > Two-party “democracy” gave the UK a decade of ill-represented government. There are 11 parties represented (12 that have won seats, but Sinn Fein is Sinn Fein), not counting independents, in the House of Commons. > The switch from FPTP to a proportional ranked voting system needs to happen for its democracy to be sustain itself in the future. Don’t disagree with this, though.
- penguin_booze 3y ago
  For anyone wondering, FPTP is https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First-past-the-post_voting https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First-past-the-post_voting.
localplume 3y ago
[dead]

samwillis 3y ago

As much as I don't trust the current and recent crop of senior UK government politicians, this is a editorialised title. The company, Infosys is his father in laws (his wife does have shares), and as far as I can see there is no link between this IT contract and North Sea oil rights. But maybe I'm wrong and it a simple bribe, but I doubt it. Fundamentally though, a billionaire should not be a political leader, too much opportunity of corruption or the appearance of it.

r_thambapillai 3y ago
Its super unlikely to be a direct bribe, I think that much is fair to say. But I think viewed differently, the article is saying: Sunak's family has a tremendous interest in BP and Shell needing consulting services. Might this have an indirect effect on Sunak's willingness to legislate in ways that are highly likely to increase the amount of consulting services BP and Shell need? Its not bribery, by any means, but I think its definitely noteworthy that these pressures / considerations may be involved
- slantedview 3y ago
  Bribery doesn't need to be direct for it to be bribery. And in this case no bribes are even needed since Sunak can benefit from his own decision.
OhMeadhbh 3y ago
Heck. I had to pass on a couple deals because I have family members in California government. Guess that's not a problem if you're a Trump or a Sunak.
oxfordmale 3y ago
This is how business gets done in the UK. There is nothing legally wrong about this. However, it is clear that Rishi has a personal pro oil interest. This may well align with his political ideology, but it does give the appearance of a conflict of interest.
schnable 3y ago

mattzito 3y ago

This feels like a nothingburger: - Infosys already had a $100m/year contract with BP - the new contract is 1.5b over 10 years, so a significant increase, but as part of the contract infosys becomes the primary IT partner for BP, therefore not an unimaginable increase - Infosys's customers include Shell, Aramco, Chevron, and others. They're one of the top IT services company for the energy industry, so this isn't an outlandish customer for them to have - Infosys's revenue in 2021 was $12b, making this contract ~1% of their annual revenue. The net increase over their previous contract is .4% In short, this looks like a fairly standard contract from a provider that was already heavily represented in the industry and has an existing substantial investment with the customer - and one that doesn't materially impact the trajectory of the company. Other than the timing of the events, there doesn't seem to be anything to suggest inappropriate actions on anyone's part.

toyg 3y ago
But that's the structural problem with the likes of Sunak being in government: maybe it's all legitimate business, but because of his role it looks bad, and there is no real way to prove it one way or the other. An honourable person would recuse himself from situations where even the suggestion of impropriety is possible. Sunak should not have been PM to start with.
- rayiner 3y ago
  [flagged]
  - olddustytrail 3y ago
    It's astonishing that you think that ordinary people in first world countries are "unsuccessful".
    - Valodim 3y ago
      It seems fair to compare to folks from the same country in this context, no?

boeingUH60 3y ago

This is outrage clickbait for the gullible. Infosys already had BP as a major customer for a long time. > The CEO of one of Infosys' other major clients, Shell, also joined Rishi Sunak's new business council two weeks ago. Gasp, CEO of one of biggest oil companies joined a Prime Minister's business council...call the cops! Again, Infosys had already worked with Shell for a long time. Have a look at other articles on this website...it's an outrage blog designed to extract money by playing with people's emotions and intellect. The kind of "journalists" that deserve to be permanently laid off.

0xDEF 3y ago

To combat climate change we have to lower our use of oil and natural gas but it is preferable that we control our own supply during the transition period instead of being dependent on geopolitical adversaries like Russia and "frenemies" like Saudi Arabia. Also it's probably a reach to claim that an Indian IT outsourcing bodyshop made the UK drill for oil and natural gas in the North Sea.

zh3 3y ago

I've seen (in one case personally) plenty of cases of councils being taking for a ride (quite possibly by private jet), e.g. case below on the BBC recently. Thurrock Council "invested" £655m in solar farms which then went on luxury goods ("including a yacht and a private jet"). The council ended up bankrupt (to be bailed out by the taxpayer). At government level, it tends to be less obvious. I often wonder about how the honest people in government carry on, being close to the action (maybe like working for an aid agency and having to accept that X percentage of the aid is going to be diverted along the way). https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-66340991 https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-66340991 Edit: in the same vein, I see "War is a racket" has been submitted today. [0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36960480 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36960480

Thoeu388 3y ago

[dead]

saos 3y ago

The level of corruption in the U.K is just fascinating. As Brit I can only laugh. I do fear next election and that general public will continue to vote for which ever party keeps their house price high

extasia 3y ago
I agree with your last point. How do we fix this problem though?
- slj 3y ago
  The abolition of private property ought to do it

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]

cowpig 3y ago

Apparently many of the commenters here are not familiar with the concept of a blind trust[0] or of people in positions of power recusing themselves from decisions in which they have a conflict of interest[1]. Basically, working in positions of governmental power should not have any kind of financial interest in anything they have power over, otherwise it will muddy their ability to govern in a way that is the best interest of the public. I'm a bit disturbed that this is not common, accepted knowledge. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blind_trust https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blind_trust [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Judicial_disqualification https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Judicial_disqualification

tgv 3y ago
Blind trust doesn't work. It's a smokescreen. If your political actions improve your stock value, that increase will still be there when you step down. Sunak's wife is the daughter of the Infosys founder. According to Wikipedia: > She holds a 0.93-per-cent stake in Infosys, along with shares in several other British businesses

OJFord 3y ago

'A company founded by his father in law' is not '[his] family firm', the article doesn't improve from there. Whoever heard of 'The London Economic' anyway? Seems like a digital tabloid. Flagged because of above, and I can't see what decent discussion can possibly be had between the inevitable political flaming.

Abel54 3y ago

Thanks for sharing.

Abel54 3y ago
[dead]