5 ms·

Er, it was never a strategy in the first place? Or this is just a joke? :) But to be clear, law enforcement agents (all as far as I'm aware) are allowed to do

by csydas 3y ago

Er, it was never a strategy in the first place? Or this is just a joke? :) But to be clear, law enforcement agents (all as far as I'm aware) are allowed to do illegal things to catch their mark. In the US at least, this is not entrapment unless they forcibly coerce you to do something you normally wouldn't; just smoking or snorting some stuff in a casual setting isn't enough, they'd have to have you more or less at gunpoint or threatening in another way to make you do it. Just a very important fact for people to remember: Law enforcement agents in the US can and will lie frequently and do illegal things in pursuit of their goal. Entrapment does not mean what most people think it does, so it's not good to rely on this, as entrapment has a very narrow legal definition far away from the layperson definition.

jonathankoren 3y ago
Being serious, I think this is the correct take. There's a lot of in misinformation about outing undercover cops, most famously the mistaken belief that cops can't lie about not being a cop. Regardless, from my experience on a federal grand jury that almost exclusively dealt with drug cases, the cops just get someone in your group to flip, and possibly wear a wire. Bonus: Hanging up a sheet between the kitchen and the living room when you cook meth, isn't enough to protect the people in the living room from catching a case of Conspiracy to Manufacture.
Der_Einzige 3y ago
I'm not talking about law enforcement. Consider that many people on HN do work that the spooks would find "interesting" but would not be "illegal". As such, most of the intelligence community is not related to law enforcement. You might be surprised about just how many 3 and 4 letter agencies exist.
- csydas 3y ago
  Er, it doesn't matter though :) Federal "spook" agencies do the same thing and are equally above the law. You can't know really if your past business partners joined you for a fun evening just because or if their multi-letter work places got all the forms in order for them to do "whatever it takes" to catch you doing something illegal. If your active threat scope involves governments, don't expect them to behave with regards to the laws where you are; either they don't care and will just deal with the fallout, or they have explicit approval do to illegal or wrong things. I don't have an answer on how to check for spooks, I guess you'd have to do reverse reconnaissance, but I have no idea how feasible it is. But testing legal and social norms is not reliable; governments are not really bound by their own rules, especially when it comes to branches dealing with security or intelligence.

by csydas 3y ago

jonathankoren 3y ago

Being serious, I think this is the correct take. There's a lot of in misinformation about outing undercover cops, most famously the mistaken belief that cops can't lie about not being a cop. Regardless, from my experience on a federal grand jury that almost exclusively dealt with drug cases, the cops just get someone in your group to flip, and possibly wear a wire. Bonus: Hanging up a sheet between the kitchen and the living room when you cook meth, isn't enough to protect the people in the living room from catching a case of Conspiracy to Manufacture.

Der_Einzige 3y ago

I'm not talking about law enforcement. Consider that many people on HN do work that the spooks would find "interesting" but would not be "illegal". As such, most of the intelligence community is not related to law enforcement. You might be surprised about just how many 3 and 4 letter agencies exist.

csydas 3y ago
Er, it doesn't matter though :) Federal "spook" agencies do the same thing and are equally above the law. You can't know really if your past business partners joined you for a fun evening just because or if their multi-letter work places got all the forms in order for them to do "whatever it takes" to catch you doing something illegal. If your active threat scope involves governments, don't expect them to behave with regards to the laws where you are; either they don't care and will just deal with the fallout, or they have explicit approval do to illegal or wrong things. I don't have an answer on how to check for spooks, I guess you'd have to do reverse reconnaissance, but I have no idea how feasible it is. But testing legal and social norms is not reliable; governments are not really bound by their own rules, especially when it comes to branches dealing with security or intelligence.