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> Nobody wants these chemicals anywhere near them. Don't we? I've got a bunch of non-stick pans that I love cooking on (I checked the brand I use most, and the

> Nobody wants these chemicals anywhere near them. Don't we? I've got a bunch of non-stick pans that I love cooking on (I checked the brand I use most, and their pans are coated in PTFE, a PFAS). I've also got a roll of PTFE tape for plumbing around the house (basically ubiquitous for that purpose), and some PTFE tubing for hobby use (PTFE tubing is in the majority of 3D printers).

tracker1 3y ago
I think the bigger risks are in anything resembling disposable. Also, maybe getting people to understand how to care for their cookware better so it lasts 10+ years instead of 3-5 or so. I actually prefer stainless steel myself, my SO prefers non-stick. Before I was with my SO, I had a single 8" non-stick I would use just for eggs. I'm as or more concerned about the plastics in food packaging myself. Hard to avoid with so much processed food in most grocery stores though. Wouldn't mind taking a few steps back. Considering we grow well more than enough food to actually feed the world at this point.
- codyb 3y ago
  Ya, was even thinking the other day that I should just toss a few glass containers in my backpack when I'm going out to restaurants. I usually carry a backpack anyways, I'm not sure there's much value in me carting away leftovers in disposable containers. The amount of plastic everywhere is staggering when you start to take it into account every time you toss a piece of it out.
OtherShrezzing 3y ago
Your tape and tubing scenarios make sense. I'm not sure anyone can seriously require a non-stick pan though. Cooks managed without them for thousands of years by just paying more attention to their eggs, and comparably unsticky materials existed before the invention of non-stick coatings. The long-term negative impacts of teflon just doesn't seem to be worth the incredibly slight convenience they offer.
- delecti 3y ago
  I wasn't talking about "require", I was talking about "want". The subjective experience of cooking on (and cleaning) a non-stick pan is an absolute delight in comparison. I don't want those chemicals in me, but I sure do appreciate them in my kitchen.
  - londons_explore 3y ago
    The heroin user doesn't require more heroin either... But he does want some more...
    - delecti 3y ago
      Maybe I'm just missing an implied "/s". Surely I don't need to spend too much time addressing how silly a comparison is between "I just need my next fix of heroin" and "I like scrambled eggs".
      - accrual 3y ago
        Maybe a little too much PFAS on that slippery slope.
- nerdbert 3y ago
  I don't even understand what convenience they offer. I cook a lot and find stainless steel just as easy to clean. Let it sit with some water in it after you take out the food, and by the time dinner is done it wipes clean with a sponge. At the same time I don't have to worry about nicking or overheating the teflon, and stainless steel pans tend to have better heft and thicker bottoms.
wkat4242 3y ago
And gore-tex clothing is a godsend in countries where it rains almost every day like Ireland :)
- ChatGTP 3y ago
  I've had pretty good luck with wax cotton from fjallraven...
Zigurd 3y ago
There is a literal canary in the coal mine: People with birds don't use PTFE because if they burn a pan it will kill their birds.
- hilbert42 3y ago
  Wasn't aware of this, do you have references, instances?
  - Zigurd 3y ago
    https://wagwalking.com/bird/condition/teflon-poisoning https://wagwalking.com/bird/condition/teflon-poisoning https://vcahospitals.com/know-your-pet/teflon-polytetrafluoroethylene-poisoning-in-birds https://vcahospitals.com/know-your-pet/teflon-polytetrafluor... https://www.petinsurance.com/healthzone/pet-health/pet-toxins/teflon-poisoning-in-birds/ https://www.petinsurance.com/healthzone/pet-health/pet-toxin... https://www.ewg.org/research/canaries-kitchen https://www.ewg.org/research/canaries-kitchen I know we live in an AI post-search-engine world but...
    - the-alchemist 3y ago
      I feel this issue is over exaggerated. The study at EWG says that toxic chemicals are released in Teflon pans at 464 deg (C or F? article doesn't say), versus 680 deg for non-Teflon. I don't think 99% of people ever get their cookware that hot.
      - Zigurd 3y ago
        Pretty much any gas cooktop could burn an unattended pan and heat it way above oven temperatures. A gas flame is about 2000 deg f.
    - scubadude 3y ago
      You can't make a claim, then get asked for sources, and tell them to do a Google search to find the sources lol
jdietrich 3y ago
Not to mention waterproof clothing, non-fogging safety goggles, temperature-resistant wire insulation, dielectrics, separators in Li-ion batteries and countless biomedical applications. Fluoropolymers and fluorosurfactants have unique properties that make them very difficult to substitute. I'm not sufficiently informed to comment on the possible health impacts of fluorinated hydrocarbons, but I can say that a world without them will be poorer in countless small ways. That might well be a price worth paying, but we shouldn't pretend that it's an easy decision.
coryrc 3y ago
PTFE is not a PFAS. PFAS are used to manufacture it.
- delecti 3y ago
  Do you have a source for that? I'm trying to find anywhere that agrees with you, and every source I can find says PTFE is itself also a PFAS.
  - coryrc 3y ago
    I am wrong. What I was thinking of is the claimed "PFOA-free" on some new cookware is the same as "PFAS-free" which it clearly isn't. Though PTFE is so inert, I don't think it faces the same problems as PFOA and other PFAS used in firefighting.

tracker1 3y ago

I think the bigger risks are in anything resembling disposable. Also, maybe getting people to understand how to care for their cookware better so it lasts 10+ years instead of 3-5 or so. I actually prefer stainless steel myself, my SO prefers non-stick. Before I was with my SO, I had a single 8" non-stick I would use just for eggs. I'm as or more concerned about the plastics in food packaging myself. Hard to avoid with so much processed food in most grocery stores though. Wouldn't mind taking a few steps back. Considering we grow well more than enough food to actually feed the world at this point.

codyb 3y ago
Ya, was even thinking the other day that I should just toss a few glass containers in my backpack when I'm going out to restaurants. I usually carry a backpack anyways, I'm not sure there's much value in me carting away leftovers in disposable containers. The amount of plastic everywhere is staggering when you start to take it into account every time you toss a piece of it out.

OtherShrezzing 3y ago

Your tape and tubing scenarios make sense. I'm not sure anyone can seriously require a non-stick pan though. Cooks managed without them for thousands of years by just paying more attention to their eggs, and comparably unsticky materials existed before the invention of non-stick coatings. The long-term negative impacts of teflon just doesn't seem to be worth the incredibly slight convenience they offer.

delecti 3y ago
I wasn't talking about "require", I was talking about "want". The subjective experience of cooking on (and cleaning) a non-stick pan is an absolute delight in comparison. I don't want those chemicals in me, but I sure do appreciate them in my kitchen.
- londons_explore 3y ago
  The heroin user doesn't require more heroin either... But he does want some more...
  - delecti 3y ago
    Maybe I'm just missing an implied "/s". Surely I don't need to spend too much time addressing how silly a comparison is between "I just need my next fix of heroin" and "I like scrambled eggs".
    - accrual 3y ago
      Maybe a little too much PFAS on that slippery slope.
nerdbert 3y ago
I don't even understand what convenience they offer. I cook a lot and find stainless steel just as easy to clean. Let it sit with some water in it after you take out the food, and by the time dinner is done it wipes clean with a sponge. At the same time I don't have to worry about nicking or overheating the teflon, and stainless steel pans tend to have better heft and thicker bottoms.

wkat4242 3y ago

And gore-tex clothing is a godsend in countries where it rains almost every day like Ireland :)

ChatGTP 3y ago
I've had pretty good luck with wax cotton from fjallraven...

Zigurd 3y ago

There is a literal canary in the coal mine: People with birds don't use PTFE because if they burn a pan it will kill their birds.

hilbert42 3y ago
Wasn't aware of this, do you have references, instances?
- Zigurd 3y ago
  https://wagwalking.com/bird/condition/teflon-poisoning https://wagwalking.com/bird/condition/teflon-poisoning https://vcahospitals.com/know-your-pet/teflon-polytetrafluoroethylene-poisoning-in-birds https://vcahospitals.com/know-your-pet/teflon-polytetrafluor... https://www.petinsurance.com/healthzone/pet-health/pet-toxins/teflon-poisoning-in-birds/ https://www.petinsurance.com/healthzone/pet-health/pet-toxin... https://www.ewg.org/research/canaries-kitchen https://www.ewg.org/research/canaries-kitchen I know we live in an AI post-search-engine world but...
  - the-alchemist 3y ago
    I feel this issue is over exaggerated. The study at EWG says that toxic chemicals are released in Teflon pans at 464 deg (C or F? article doesn't say), versus 680 deg for non-Teflon. I don't think 99% of people ever get their cookware that hot.
    - Zigurd 3y ago
      Pretty much any gas cooktop could burn an unattended pan and heat it way above oven temperatures. A gas flame is about 2000 deg f.
  - scubadude 3y ago
    You can't make a claim, then get asked for sources, and tell them to do a Google search to find the sources lol

jdietrich 3y ago

Not to mention waterproof clothing, non-fogging safety goggles, temperature-resistant wire insulation, dielectrics, separators in Li-ion batteries and countless biomedical applications. Fluoropolymers and fluorosurfactants have unique properties that make them very difficult to substitute. I'm not sufficiently informed to comment on the possible health impacts of fluorinated hydrocarbons, but I can say that a world without them will be poorer in countless small ways. That might well be a price worth paying, but we shouldn't pretend that it's an easy decision.

coryrc 3y ago

PTFE is not a PFAS. PFAS are used to manufacture it.

delecti 3y ago
Do you have a source for that? I'm trying to find anywhere that agrees with you, and every source I can find says PTFE is itself also a PFAS.
- coryrc 3y ago
  I am wrong. What I was thinking of is the claimed "PFOA-free" on some new cookware is the same as "PFAS-free" which it clearly isn't. Though PTFE is so inert, I don't think it faces the same problems as PFOA and other PFAS used in firefighting.