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How is this even debatable? Nobody wants these chemicals anywhere near them.
by rgrieselhuber 3y ago
How is this even debatable? Nobody wants these chemicals anywhere near them.
- delecti 3y ago> Nobody wants these chemicals anywhere near them. Don't we? I've got a bunch of non-stick pans that I love cooking on (I checked the brand I use most, and their pans are coated in PTFE, a PFAS). I've also got a roll of PTFE tape for plumbing around the house (basically ubiquitous for that purpose), and some PTFE tubing for hobby use (PTFE tubing is in the majority of 3D printers).
- tracker1 3y agoI think the bigger risks are in anything resembling disposable. Also, maybe getting people to understand how to care for their cookware better so it lasts 10+ years instead of 3-5 or so. I actually prefer stainless steel myself, my SO prefers non-stick. Before I was with my SO, I had a single 8" non-stick I would use just for eggs. I'm as or more concerned about the plastics in food packaging myself. Hard to avoid with so much processed food in most grocery stores though. Wouldn't mind taking a few steps back. Considering we grow well more than enough food to actually feed the world at this point.
- codyb 3y agoYa, was even thinking the other day that I should just toss a few glass containers in my backpack when I'm going out to restaurants. I usually carry a backpack anyways, I'm not sure there's much value in me carting away leftovers in disposable containers. The amount of plastic everywhere is staggering when you start to take it into account every time you toss a piece of it out.
- OtherShrezzing 3y agoYour tape and tubing scenarios make sense. I'm not sure anyone can seriously require a non-stick pan though. Cooks managed without them for thousands of years by just paying more attention to their eggs, and comparably unsticky materials existed before the invention of non-stick coatings. The long-term negative impacts of teflon just doesn't seem to be worth the incredibly slight convenience they offer.
- delecti 3y agoI wasn't talking about "require", I was talking about "want". The subjective experience of cooking on (and cleaning) a non-stick pan is an absolute delight in comparison. I don't want those chemicals in me, but I sure do appreciate them in my kitchen.
- londons_explore 3y agoThe heroin user doesn't require more heroin either... But he does want some more...
- nerdbert 3y agoI don't even understand what convenience they offer. I cook a lot and find stainless steel just as easy to clean. Let it sit with some water in it after you take out the food, and by the time dinner is done it wipes clean with a sponge. At the same time I don't have to worry about nicking or overheating the teflon, and stainless steel pans tend to have better heft and thicker bottoms.
- wkat4242 3y agoAnd gore-tex clothing is a godsend in countries where it rains almost every day like Ireland :)
- ChatGTP 3y agoI've had pretty good luck with wax cotton from fjallraven...
- Zigurd 3y agoThere is a literal canary in the coal mine: People with birds don't use PTFE because if they burn a pan it will kill their birds.
- hilbert42 3y agoWasn't aware of this, do you have references, instances?
- Zigurd 3y agohttps://wagwalking.com/bird/condition/teflon-poisoning https://wagwalking.com/bird/condition/teflon-poisoning https://vcahospitals.com/know-your-pet/teflon-polytetrafluoroethylene-poisoning-in-birds https://vcahospitals.com/know-your-pet/teflon-polytetrafluor... https://www.petinsurance.com/healthzone/pet-health/pet-toxins/teflon-poisoning-in-birds/ https://www.petinsurance.com/healthzone/pet-health/pet-toxin... https://www.ewg.org/research/canaries-kitchen https://www.ewg.org/research/canaries-kitchen I know we live in an AI post-search-engine world but...
- the-alchemist 3y agoI feel this issue is over exaggerated. The study at EWG says that toxic chemicals are released in Teflon pans at 464 deg (C or F? article doesn't say), versus 680 deg for non-Teflon. I don't think 99% of people ever get their cookware that hot.
- Zigurd 3y agoPretty much any gas cooktop could burn an unattended pan and heat it way above oven temperatures. A gas flame is about 2000 deg f.
- scubadude 3y agoYou can't make a claim, then get asked for sources, and tell them to do a Google search to find the sources lol
- jdietrich 3y agoNot to mention waterproof clothing, non-fogging safety goggles, temperature-resistant wire insulation, dielectrics, separators in Li-ion batteries and countless biomedical applications. Fluoropolymers and fluorosurfactants have unique properties that make them very difficult to substitute. I'm not sufficiently informed to comment on the possible health impacts of fluorinated hydrocarbons, but I can say that a world without them will be poorer in countless small ways. That might well be a price worth paying, but we shouldn't pretend that it's an easy decision.
- coryrc 3y agoPTFE is not a PFAS. PFAS are used to manufacture it.
- delecti 3y agoDo you have a source for that? I'm trying to find anywhere that agrees with you, and every source I can find says PTFE is itself also a PFAS.
- coryrc 3y agoI am wrong. What I was thinking of is the claimed "PFOA-free" on some new cookware is the same as "PFAS-free" which it clearly isn't. Though PTFE is so inert, I don't think it faces the same problems as PFOA and other PFAS used in firefighting.
- mrob 3y agoThere's no good substitute for PTFE cookware. The modern "non stick" alternatives are stickier even when new and degrade quickly. There's no good substitute for PTFE in rain clothes either. PTFE itself is harmless, but the precursor chemicals are dangerous. I'd happily pay a lot more to cover the costs of their safe containment and disposal. Despite people calling them "forever chemicals", PFAS can be destroyed by processes such as supercritical water oxidation.
- zucked 3y agoWe've had perfectly serviceable non-stick cookware for ages - carbon steel cookware treated properly easily replicates teflon with a little oil or butter. Before someone claims to the contrary - I basically only use TWO pans now for all my cooking - both 14" carbon steel pans I initially conditioned that have only gotten more non-stick as I've used them. I regularly cook over-easy eggs, scrambled eggs, and other foods that are apparently only possible in teflon non-stick pans if you believe the literature.
- Zigurd 3y agoI can't even be arsed to season a pan properly and nonstick ceramic is fine. It won't last forever, but it works for upwards of 10 years.
- lkbm 3y agoI've watched so many people scramble eggs every morning and leave half the egg stuck to the pan day after day. You don't have to live this way! Before putting in your eggs, heat up the pan and put in some oil/butter. A spatula that can scrape well (flat-nosed, or moderately flexible plastic/silicon) is also helpful. For a spell some years back, I had a game of "find the worst pan in the kitchen and see if I can cook my eggs without them sticking". Not quite a 100% success rate, but pretty close. (That was mostly scrambled, though. Fried eggs and omelettes are more difficult.) It's true that a non-stick pan makes it much easier a beginner, but the downside is that said beginner will destroy a non-stick pan within weeks.
- loeg 3y agoI do! These chemicals are extremely useful and my life is regularly improved by their presence.
- sirsinsalot 3y agoWell, nevermind the potential fallout then, if you, the individual is happy. Consumerism really did kill "us" for "me" didn't it.
- loeg 3y agoI think my experience is representative, rather than unusual! PFAS are probably a net good for all of "us," as you put it.
- sirsinsalot 3y agoI found the PR farmer!