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It's been a predictable playbook since they started. Burn cash, win the market, then increase prices and decrease their own costs. The problem is, they seem t

It's been a predictable playbook since they started. Burn cash, win the market, then increase prices and decrease their own costs. The problem is, they seem to have failed to drive out the competition. It's still quite easy to find a public taxi in most big cities, and there are a bunch of competitors ready to step in as Uber declines. In London for instance, they seem to be totally out of the game and people have gone back to taxis and to competitors such as Bolt in the blink of an eyelid.

mplanchard 3y ago
Thank god the taxis haven't all been driven out of business. I still find it much easier to grab a taxi out of most decently sized airports and train stations than to futz around on my phone, worry about battery, type in my destination, etc. In Manhattan it's still very possible to just grab a taxi without any kind of advance planning, and again it's way easier than having to mess around on my phone. That said, Uber/Lyft have made it impossible to get taxis at smaller airports and train stations in mid-sized cities, which I find super frustrating. There are never any taxis waiting at the Providence Amtrak station, for example.
- zeroonetwothree 3y ago
  That’s great but as someone that doesn’t travel in Manhattan or major airports it used to be impossible to get a taxi. Uber is a vast improvement over the previous status of calling the dispatcher, having to wait 30 min, and knowing it’s 50/50 if they will even show up.
- Fernicia 3y ago
  I regularly get Uber/Lyfts from JFK and Newark without hassle. I don't know why I'd want to ride with a regular taxi. Taxis still suffer from all the things that created the impetus for ride sharing platforms: - Lack of price transparency. Will tourists landing in JFK know that $100 is an acceptable price for a trip into the city? Or that $150 is a scam? - Lack of driver rating (or passenger rating) - Maligned incentives. The taxi driver has incentives to extend the trip as long as possible via traffic or a long route. This is not the case in ride sharing apps. - Accountability. Doesn't happen in NY, but seedier parts of the world taxis have abducted and robbed/raped their customers. Ride sharing provides centralised ride records and GPS data for passenger and driver.
  - xbmcuser 3y ago
    Here largest riding app is grab that bought out uber in many asian countries. We can book taxi from the same grab app which I think is good
  - innethread 3y ago
    I’m sure your experience was true at some point, but in my most recent experience with taxis at JFK, I would never go back to ordering Ubers or Lyfts. There’s a long line of taxis waiting, so there’s never a need to wait for a driver. They all have ample space for luggage, something I’ve had trouble with when using ride-share apps before. They had a flat price to go into Manhattan—around $70 if i recall correctly, whereas an Uber or Lyft at that time was $100+ for an XL. Surge pricing goes crazy.
  - joe5150 3y ago
    You would never be asked to pay $100 for a trip from JFK to Manhattan--unless you're in an Uber! NYC taxi pricing is more transparent and more predictable than Uber. Until recently the fares were printed on the cars.
    - mrguyorama 3y ago
      Indeed, every single taxi I have ever seen has more transparent and simple pricing than uber. An initial price and then a per mile price. I can calculate it in my head, I don't have to trust that Uber's "algorithm" doesn't play price games.
  - catlover76 3y ago
    It's always better to take a taxi from JFK--if it's feasible and assuming you take a real taxi and don't get scammed by the dudes who try to hustle you when you're walking out of the airport with luggage. As mentioned, they have pretty much set rates to go into Manhattan, and it's cheaper to go to other areas as well. I used to live in Williamsburg until very recently, and had to take Ubers from JFK occasionally when I landed at a terminal that had a bad taxi situation. The Ubers were expensive AF; over $100 total. Taxis were always sub-100, even when I used to live in Manhattan. My main issue with taking Ubers from the airport, though, is that waiting for them takes forever and the designation pickup locations are clusterfucks. In contrast, the taxi stands have orderly lines. This is heavily terminal dependent, though; when landing at the American Airlines terminal, the taxi situation is great. The line is never too long and moves quickly. But, as mentioned, sometimes one lands at a terminal with a massive taxi line that moves like a snail. At that point, maybe one opts for an Uber--for which the wait is 10+ minutes, and may increase as time goes on and drivers are switched (!!), and the cost is extortionate. In non-airport situations in NYC, taxis are always cheaper. Not always feasible outside of Manhattan (there aren't enough driving around in most parts of the other boroughs), but for any intra-Manhattan trip, taxis should be preferred.
- dmd 3y ago
  A comment similar to this one made me try a taxi from the airport a few weeks ago, instead of my usual Uber. They went miles out of their way, the taxi had no seat belts, and at my destination they told me their credit card machine was out of order and they could only take cash ("I can drive you to an ATM"). I said no, and suddenly the credit card machine worked again - but they insisted on a 30% "card fee". I did a chargeback. This sort of thing has always been my experience with taxis.
  - dawnerd 3y ago
    It sucks but you need to tell them up front you’re using credit and ask for a flat rate.
    - dmd 3y ago
      Exactly. I shouldn't "need to". It shouldn't be my responsibility to tell them "oh by the way, don't scam me today". That should be a given!
      - csallen 3y ago
        Yes exactly. If Uber did this sort of thing as a matter of course, people would be up in arms about it. This is one advantage to there being 1-2 huge brands (Uber and Lyft, Amazon and Walmart, etc.) vs a smattering of tiny businesses (e.g. taxis). Misdeeds by huge brands give people something to point at, and complain about, and hold accountable. Whereas systemic misdeeds by individuals who are part of a smattering of tiny companies results in people saying, "Eh this is just how it is, learn to live with it."
        devmor 3y ago
        But Uber does scam you as a matter of course, they've just hidden it in such a way that you're willing to accept it because it's a slight inconvenience that extracts extra money from you, rather than making you go out of your way to do something.
- citizenpaul 3y ago
  Sure in a big city. In the majority of the country Uber is just aboit the only option for a taxi. Have you ever tried having to call a taxi outside of a city. You have to call and if they even answer they are like "what u want". .. umm is this the taxi? Yeah why didnt you say you needed a taxi? What ? So are you able to pick me up? Hold on and ill call you back.
  - NeoTar 3y ago
    Interesting. In Europe (at least the UK and Germany) it seems to be the opposite. Outside of a big-city Uber is non-existent and you are relying on local taxi-firms.
  - mrguyorama 3y ago
    I grew up in shithole tiny town rural state. Our town of 7000 people had a few sketchy seeming taxis that I always wondered how they could possibly work. Then I became a cashier at the local grocery store and noticed basically the entire underclass of that town used those taxis daily. Their service was so reliable that our front end manager would call the taxis for these people while they were still checking out as a courtesy. Yet when my girlfriend tries to get an Uber in the city of 60k that I live in now, it's a crapshoot whether there is one AT ALL, or whether it shows up when it says, or whether your driver will even know where you are going (it's not a complicated city). So maybe if taxis sucked where you used them, maybe you could have fixed that instead of fucking over perfectly working taxis for the rest of us by supporting an industry player who explicitly was trying to kill taxis as a small business. My local taxi company didn't have to support 2k Silicon Valley priced software engineers, didn't spend some of that effort building tools to identify and blackball cops trying to stop people from using an illegal service, and didn't force their drivers to sleep in their cars to make their normal wage.
- m463 3y ago
  I've taken taxis to from places the last couple times and they were a little slower, but predictable. I think there are still laws taxis have to abide by. Meanwhile was stranded and we took an uber, and they did some shenanigans with pricing in the evening and it was > $100. I think it is pretty easy to figure out if someone is in a bind and charge more. consider: on side of freeway. In front of car dealer. in front of hospital. In business parking lot hours after closing. when it is dark where it is lonely. etc.
- Spooky23 3y ago
  I live near a smaller airport - the worst problem is that you can’t get service off hours. In the taxi days, they had a contractual obligation to provide service to the airport. Now, getting an early morning Uber/Lyft for a first flight is difficult… prebooking doesn’t work, and you’re stuck driving and parking, hiring a black car, etc.
- adrianN 3y ago
  It seems easy enough to start a Taxi business, so even if all had been driven out of business, new ones would quickly pop up if demand for taxis returned.
aiisjustanif 3y ago
Uber is still used quite often in London and outside of London proper, bolt is a bit unreliable. I used Uber a few times this month.
usefulcat 3y ago
> The problem is, they seem to have failed to drive out the competition. How could it be otherwise? Their product is, and always has been, a commodity. * Average customer does not care whether they are getting a ride via Uber/Lyft/$XYZ * Average driver doesn't care whether they're driving for Uber/Lyft/$XYZ * The technology required to implement this service (software, mostly), while not trivial, is also not that difficult * The capital requirements are not that high (compared to, say, building a fab).. Unless of course you burn investor capital for years to undercut competition. That is the closest thing they ever had to a moat, which was obviously not sustainable long term.
Hermitian909 3y ago
Uber as a company started making a lot less sense when it became clear they wouldn't crack self driving cars (remember when they did self driving?). The current moat is far less defensible.
Spooky23 3y ago
It’s pretty funny. Unless you’re going for a black car, I find that NYC taxis are a better value.

mplanchard 3y ago

Thank god the taxis haven't all been driven out of business. I still find it much easier to grab a taxi out of most decently sized airports and train stations than to futz around on my phone, worry about battery, type in my destination, etc. In Manhattan it's still very possible to just grab a taxi without any kind of advance planning, and again it's way easier than having to mess around on my phone. That said, Uber/Lyft have made it impossible to get taxis at smaller airports and train stations in mid-sized cities, which I find super frustrating. There are never any taxis waiting at the Providence Amtrak station, for example.

zeroonetwothree 3y ago
That’s great but as someone that doesn’t travel in Manhattan or major airports it used to be impossible to get a taxi. Uber is a vast improvement over the previous status of calling the dispatcher, having to wait 30 min, and knowing it’s 50/50 if they will even show up.
Fernicia 3y ago
I regularly get Uber/Lyfts from JFK and Newark without hassle. I don't know why I'd want to ride with a regular taxi. Taxis still suffer from all the things that created the impetus for ride sharing platforms: - Lack of price transparency. Will tourists landing in JFK know that $100 is an acceptable price for a trip into the city? Or that $150 is a scam? - Lack of driver rating (or passenger rating) - Maligned incentives. The taxi driver has incentives to extend the trip as long as possible via traffic or a long route. This is not the case in ride sharing apps. - Accountability. Doesn't happen in NY, but seedier parts of the world taxis have abducted and robbed/raped their customers. Ride sharing provides centralised ride records and GPS data for passenger and driver.
- xbmcuser 3y ago
  Here largest riding app is grab that bought out uber in many asian countries. We can book taxi from the same grab app which I think is good
- innethread 3y ago
  I’m sure your experience was true at some point, but in my most recent experience with taxis at JFK, I would never go back to ordering Ubers or Lyfts. There’s a long line of taxis waiting, so there’s never a need to wait for a driver. They all have ample space for luggage, something I’ve had trouble with when using ride-share apps before. They had a flat price to go into Manhattan—around $70 if i recall correctly, whereas an Uber or Lyft at that time was $100+ for an XL. Surge pricing goes crazy.
- joe5150 3y ago
  You would never be asked to pay $100 for a trip from JFK to Manhattan--unless you're in an Uber! NYC taxi pricing is more transparent and more predictable than Uber. Until recently the fares were printed on the cars.
  - mrguyorama 3y ago
    Indeed, every single taxi I have ever seen has more transparent and simple pricing than uber. An initial price and then a per mile price. I can calculate it in my head, I don't have to trust that Uber's "algorithm" doesn't play price games.
- catlover76 3y ago
  It's always better to take a taxi from JFK--if it's feasible and assuming you take a real taxi and don't get scammed by the dudes who try to hustle you when you're walking out of the airport with luggage. As mentioned, they have pretty much set rates to go into Manhattan, and it's cheaper to go to other areas as well. I used to live in Williamsburg until very recently, and had to take Ubers from JFK occasionally when I landed at a terminal that had a bad taxi situation. The Ubers were expensive AF; over $100 total. Taxis were always sub-100, even when I used to live in Manhattan. My main issue with taking Ubers from the airport, though, is that waiting for them takes forever and the designation pickup locations are clusterfucks. In contrast, the taxi stands have orderly lines. This is heavily terminal dependent, though; when landing at the American Airlines terminal, the taxi situation is great. The line is never too long and moves quickly. But, as mentioned, sometimes one lands at a terminal with a massive taxi line that moves like a snail. At that point, maybe one opts for an Uber--for which the wait is 10+ minutes, and may increase as time goes on and drivers are switched (!!), and the cost is extortionate. In non-airport situations in NYC, taxis are always cheaper. Not always feasible outside of Manhattan (there aren't enough driving around in most parts of the other boroughs), but for any intra-Manhattan trip, taxis should be preferred.
dmd 3y ago
A comment similar to this one made me try a taxi from the airport a few weeks ago, instead of my usual Uber. They went miles out of their way, the taxi had no seat belts, and at my destination they told me their credit card machine was out of order and they could only take cash ("I can drive you to an ATM"). I said no, and suddenly the credit card machine worked again - but they insisted on a 30% "card fee". I did a chargeback. This sort of thing has always been my experience with taxis.
- dawnerd 3y ago
  It sucks but you need to tell them up front you’re using credit and ask for a flat rate.
  - dmd 3y ago
    Exactly. I shouldn't "need to". It shouldn't be my responsibility to tell them "oh by the way, don't scam me today". That should be a given!
    - csallen 3y ago
      Yes exactly. If Uber did this sort of thing as a matter of course, people would be up in arms about it. This is one advantage to there being 1-2 huge brands (Uber and Lyft, Amazon and Walmart, etc.) vs a smattering of tiny businesses (e.g. taxis). Misdeeds by huge brands give people something to point at, and complain about, and hold accountable. Whereas systemic misdeeds by individuals who are part of a smattering of tiny companies results in people saying, "Eh this is just how it is, learn to live with it."
      - devmor 3y ago
        But Uber does scam you as a matter of course, they've just hidden it in such a way that you're willing to accept it because it's a slight inconvenience that extracts extra money from you, rather than making you go out of your way to do something.
citizenpaul 3y ago
Sure in a big city. In the majority of the country Uber is just aboit the only option for a taxi. Have you ever tried having to call a taxi outside of a city. You have to call and if they even answer they are like "what u want". .. umm is this the taxi? Yeah why didnt you say you needed a taxi? What ? So are you able to pick me up? Hold on and ill call you back.
- NeoTar 3y ago
  Interesting. In Europe (at least the UK and Germany) it seems to be the opposite. Outside of a big-city Uber is non-existent and you are relying on local taxi-firms.
- mrguyorama 3y ago
  I grew up in shithole tiny town rural state. Our town of 7000 people had a few sketchy seeming taxis that I always wondered how they could possibly work. Then I became a cashier at the local grocery store and noticed basically the entire underclass of that town used those taxis daily. Their service was so reliable that our front end manager would call the taxis for these people while they were still checking out as a courtesy. Yet when my girlfriend tries to get an Uber in the city of 60k that I live in now, it's a crapshoot whether there is one AT ALL, or whether it shows up when it says, or whether your driver will even know where you are going (it's not a complicated city). So maybe if taxis sucked where you used them, maybe you could have fixed that instead of fucking over perfectly working taxis for the rest of us by supporting an industry player who explicitly was trying to kill taxis as a small business. My local taxi company didn't have to support 2k Silicon Valley priced software engineers, didn't spend some of that effort building tools to identify and blackball cops trying to stop people from using an illegal service, and didn't force their drivers to sleep in their cars to make their normal wage.
m463 3y ago
I've taken taxis to from places the last couple times and they were a little slower, but predictable. I think there are still laws taxis have to abide by. Meanwhile was stranded and we took an uber, and they did some shenanigans with pricing in the evening and it was > $100. I think it is pretty easy to figure out if someone is in a bind and charge more. consider: on side of freeway. In front of car dealer. in front of hospital. In business parking lot hours after closing. when it is dark where it is lonely. etc.
Spooky23 3y ago
I live near a smaller airport - the worst problem is that you can’t get service off hours. In the taxi days, they had a contractual obligation to provide service to the airport. Now, getting an early morning Uber/Lyft for a first flight is difficult… prebooking doesn’t work, and you’re stuck driving and parking, hiring a black car, etc.
adrianN 3y ago
It seems easy enough to start a Taxi business, so even if all had been driven out of business, new ones would quickly pop up if demand for taxis returned.

aiisjustanif 3y ago

Uber is still used quite often in London and outside of London proper, bolt is a bit unreliable. I used Uber a few times this month.

usefulcat 3y ago

> The problem is, they seem to have failed to drive out the competition. How could it be otherwise? Their product is, and always has been, a commodity. * Average customer does not care whether they are getting a ride via Uber/Lyft/$XYZ * Average driver doesn't care whether they're driving for Uber/Lyft/$XYZ * The technology required to implement this service (software, mostly), while not trivial, is also not that difficult * The capital requirements are not that high (compared to, say, building a fab).. Unless of course you burn investor capital for years to undercut competition. That is the closest thing they ever had to a moat, which was obviously not sustainable long term.

Hermitian909 3y ago

Uber as a company started making a lot less sense when it became clear they wouldn't crack self driving cars (remember when they did self driving?). The current moat is far less defensible.

Spooky23 3y ago

It’s pretty funny. Unless you’re going for a black car, I find that NYC taxis are a better value.