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I did not write "quality of life". I wrote "lifestyle". I find that many young candidates do not want to be on a boat for a week or more away from family. Some

I did not write "quality of life". I wrote "lifestyle". I find that many young candidates do not want to be on a boat for a week or more away from family. Some do. Most do not. I, personally, enjoyed long voyages when I was young. They added quality to my life.

omginternets 3y ago
>I find that many young candidates do not want to be on a boat for a week or more away from family. I think it would be helpful to this discussion if you were to add "for the amount that I am paying them" to the end of that sentence. Then, you would be addressing the point.
- mcculley 3y ago
  Before I decided that this industry was a poor place to deploy capital, I was open to paying whatever was necessary to fix the pipeline.
  - badpun 3y ago
    In my country (Poland), long-haul truckers are paid roughly double what the local truckers (those who get to come home every night) make. This is enough to compensate people for the inconvenience, and there's generally no shortage of workers. So, maybe in your case, there's also some multiplier that would work?
    - mcculley 3y ago
      Candidates are definitely attracted to higher pay. The immediate issue is that it takes a long time to get the candidate the seatime, training, and tests to become licensed. We are working on our pipeline. That does not change the shortage today.
      - omginternets 3y ago
        It also doesn’t change the fact that the shortage you are experiencing is due to not paying enough.
        mcculley 3y ago
        The fleet of U.S. flag tugboats as it exists today is running at reduced utilization because there are fewer licensed captains than necessary to operate them. How does increasing pay alone fix that?
lotsofpulp 3y ago
It is the same thing, for the purposes of this conversation. The point is $100k for a desk job and $100k for a captain on a bot is not the same “pay”.
- mcculley 3y ago
  Indeed. And many candidates will not deal with what they see as a bad lifestyle no matter the pay.
- pcthrowaway 3y ago
  No, you're on a boat 24 hrs a day, you're at a desk (usually) 8 hrs/day. $100K for a desk job is comparable to $300K on a boat
  - mcculley 3y ago
    It is not that simple. Crew generally have defined shifts for rest. The boat is responsible for food and other basic supplies.
    - pcthrowaway 3y ago
      Oh yeah, sorry, I meant if the captain is working year-round other than a few weeks of vacation (like with desk jobs) If the captain works 2 weeks on and 2 weeks off it's probably more like $150K for a desk job
      - mcculley 3y ago
        Right now, any licensed captain with a Master of Towing endorsement can get whatever schedule he wants. If he wants to work 365 days per year, there are idle tugboats waiting for him.
pcthrowaway 3y ago
Yeah, I'm with other commenters.. it's about what you're paying them (and other perks). Pay people at all levels a minimum of $5000 for each week away at sea, then they might do 4 months of work (which includes free board but is essentially a 24hr job) and 8 months of other things they enjoy while still living a near middle-class life. Still having a hard time finding people? Give them more comfortable beds. Get an on-board chef. Ensure they have starlink access when they're not on active duty. Give them appropriate bonuses, dental, medical, RRSP matching I'd be very surprised if you don't find a number of people eager to do this if their compensation is good enough. Sure, if 80% of your workforce is only on deck 3-4 months out of the year then of course you have to hire more people too, but you'll find those people. You'll be flooded with people who want to do this. Maybe my calculus is off? Maybe you need to pay $6000/week? $10000/week? I guarantee you there is a salary incentive where people won't refuse. People will leave software engineering jobs to go work on a boat 3 months out of a year (I would at around $7000/week). Doctors will quit, etc. When people say better pay won't solve the "shortage", I wonder how they so deeply misunderstood free market economics. "most young candidates" don't want to be slaving away at a factory for most of their life either. They want to be able to buy a house. Maybe even 4 months of rent relief will massively change their lives. Maybe they want to buy a house one day or be able to responsibly have a kid. There's not a labor shortage, there are just industries that don't pay enough
- mcculley 3y ago
  Yes, we do lure people with more money. They still won’t be licensed and legal to work as captains for years.

omginternets 3y ago

>I find that many young candidates do not want to be on a boat for a week or more away from family. I think it would be helpful to this discussion if you were to add "for the amount that I am paying them" to the end of that sentence. Then, you would be addressing the point.

mcculley 3y ago
Before I decided that this industry was a poor place to deploy capital, I was open to paying whatever was necessary to fix the pipeline.
- badpun 3y ago
  In my country (Poland), long-haul truckers are paid roughly double what the local truckers (those who get to come home every night) make. This is enough to compensate people for the inconvenience, and there's generally no shortage of workers. So, maybe in your case, there's also some multiplier that would work?
  - mcculley 3y ago
    Candidates are definitely attracted to higher pay. The immediate issue is that it takes a long time to get the candidate the seatime, training, and tests to become licensed. We are working on our pipeline. That does not change the shortage today.
    - omginternets 3y ago
      It also doesn’t change the fact that the shortage you are experiencing is due to not paying enough.
      - mcculley 3y ago
        The fleet of U.S. flag tugboats as it exists today is running at reduced utilization because there are fewer licensed captains than necessary to operate them. How does increasing pay alone fix that?

lotsofpulp 3y ago

It is the same thing, for the purposes of this conversation. The point is $100k for a desk job and $100k for a captain on a bot is not the same “pay”.

mcculley 3y ago
Indeed. And many candidates will not deal with what they see as a bad lifestyle no matter the pay.
pcthrowaway 3y ago
No, you're on a boat 24 hrs a day, you're at a desk (usually) 8 hrs/day. $100K for a desk job is comparable to $300K on a boat
- mcculley 3y ago
  It is not that simple. Crew generally have defined shifts for rest. The boat is responsible for food and other basic supplies.
  - pcthrowaway 3y ago
    Oh yeah, sorry, I meant if the captain is working year-round other than a few weeks of vacation (like with desk jobs) If the captain works 2 weeks on and 2 weeks off it's probably more like $150K for a desk job
    - mcculley 3y ago
      Right now, any licensed captain with a Master of Towing endorsement can get whatever schedule he wants. If he wants to work 365 days per year, there are idle tugboats waiting for him.

pcthrowaway 3y ago

Yeah, I'm with other commenters.. it's about what you're paying them (and other perks). Pay people at all levels a minimum of $5000 for each week away at sea, then they might do 4 months of work (which includes free board but is essentially a 24hr job) and 8 months of other things they enjoy while still living a near middle-class life. Still having a hard time finding people? Give them more comfortable beds. Get an on-board chef. Ensure they have starlink access when they're not on active duty. Give them appropriate bonuses, dental, medical, RRSP matching I'd be very surprised if you don't find a number of people eager to do this if their compensation is good enough. Sure, if 80% of your workforce is only on deck 3-4 months out of the year then of course you have to hire more people too, but you'll find those people. You'll be flooded with people who want to do this. Maybe my calculus is off? Maybe you need to pay $6000/week? $10000/week? I guarantee you there is a salary incentive where people won't refuse. People will leave software engineering jobs to go work on a boat 3 months out of a year (I would at around $7000/week). Doctors will quit, etc. When people say better pay won't solve the "shortage", I wonder how they so deeply misunderstood free market economics. "most young candidates" don't want to be slaving away at a factory for most of their life either. They want to be able to buy a house. Maybe even 4 months of rent relief will massively change their lives. Maybe they want to buy a house one day or be able to responsibly have a kid. There's not a labor shortage, there are just industries that don't pay enough

mcculley 3y ago
Yes, we do lure people with more money. They still won’t be licensed and legal to work as captains for years.