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> the line between AI and consciousness would be pretty blurry at that point This is like saying the difference between Cillian Murphy and Oppenheimer is prett

> the line between AI and consciousness would be pretty blurry at that point This is like saying the difference between Cillian Murphy and Oppenheimer is pretty blurry because, look, we can watch Murphy do do all the same things Oppenheimer did! For some reason with "AI" we get all mystical and act like imitation = the real thing. Just because I can convince you I'm a doctor doesn't make me one

Andrex 3y ago
> Just because I can convince you I'm a doctor doesn't make me one Because our society has decided you need to become certified to be a doctor, and to do that you have to be a human being. There's no reason to think an AI couldn't have the same level of skill as a human doctor. The film comparison doesn't work for me, Cillian and Robert are real people. I think at the end of the day it's how you view the philosophy of the human soul. For me, it follows that if brains are matter and can produce the illusion of consciousness, so can electronics.
- janalsncm 3y ago
  >> Just because I can convince you I'm a doctor doesn't make me one > Because our society has decided you need to become certified to be a doctor, and to do that you have to be a human being. For the record, I don’t think this addresses the point. The point is that if a person can convince another that they’re a doctor, they still might not be a doctor. Your reply, that a computer can never convince someone that they’re a doctor because it’s a computer, doesn’t address the point. Presumably the point was made by a person, who would not be categorically excluded from being a doctor. But it’s also not a great example because “doctor” in our society isn’t just a super smart person who knows about medicine. They also need to be licensed. There’s no amount of convincing a doctor can do to a patient that gives them a license. So maybe a better formulation of the original point would be just because I can convince you I'm a computer programmer doesn't make me one. And maybe that’s true, I’m not sure.
adrianN 3y ago
It makes you a doctor if I’m a person who is qualified to make people doctors.
hackinthebochs 3y ago
No, the mysticism is from those who think we need something more than the correct sort of information dynamics to have consciousness/sentience/intelligence.
- agentultra 3y ago
  Right now we don’t have any system that has the correct sort of “information dynamics.” There is no specification available for sentience/intelligence. So people who want to believe an LLM is sentient can jump to any conclusion they want and they wouldn’t necessarily be wrong. But they’re not right either. I think it’s highly reductionist to compare an LLM to an intelligent, sentient being and claim it’s basically the same thing. We know how model training works, how transformers work, and we know what the expected results are. Not so for consciousness, sentience, or intelligence. Scientists have been making breakthroughs in our understanding of these phenomena but it’s still incomplete. LLM’s are useful for one thing. They’re algorithms that run on a machine to perform work for us.

Andrex 3y ago

> Just because I can convince you I'm a doctor doesn't make me one Because our society has decided you need to become certified to be a doctor, and to do that you have to be a human being. There's no reason to think an AI couldn't have the same level of skill as a human doctor. The film comparison doesn't work for me, Cillian and Robert are real people. I think at the end of the day it's how you view the philosophy of the human soul. For me, it follows that if brains are matter and can produce the illusion of consciousness, so can electronics.

janalsncm 3y ago
>> Just because I can convince you I'm a doctor doesn't make me one > Because our society has decided you need to become certified to be a doctor, and to do that you have to be a human being. For the record, I don’t think this addresses the point. The point is that if a person can convince another that they’re a doctor, they still might not be a doctor. Your reply, that a computer can never convince someone that they’re a doctor because it’s a computer, doesn’t address the point. Presumably the point was made by a person, who would not be categorically excluded from being a doctor. But it’s also not a great example because “doctor” in our society isn’t just a super smart person who knows about medicine. They also need to be licensed. There’s no amount of convincing a doctor can do to a patient that gives them a license. So maybe a better formulation of the original point would be just because I can convince you I'm a computer programmer doesn't make me one. And maybe that’s true, I’m not sure.

adrianN 3y ago

It makes you a doctor if I’m a person who is qualified to make people doctors.

hackinthebochs 3y ago

No, the mysticism is from those who think we need something more than the correct sort of information dynamics to have consciousness/sentience/intelligence.

agentultra 3y ago
Right now we don’t have any system that has the correct sort of “information dynamics.” There is no specification available for sentience/intelligence. So people who want to believe an LLM is sentient can jump to any conclusion they want and they wouldn’t necessarily be wrong. But they’re not right either. I think it’s highly reductionist to compare an LLM to an intelligent, sentient being and claim it’s basically the same thing. We know how model training works, how transformers work, and we know what the expected results are. Not so for consciousness, sentience, or intelligence. Scientists have been making breakthroughs in our understanding of these phenomena but it’s still incomplete. LLM’s are useful for one thing. They’re algorithms that run on a machine to perform work for us.