13 ms·

Nvidia’s CEO Is the Uncle of AMD’s CEO

158 points by rlprompt 3y ago

FirmwareBurner 3y ago
The wiki does a bad job of clarifying what the relationship is (wth does "first cousin once removed" even mean?). Here's a family tree: https://www.tomshardware.com/news/jensen-huang-and-lisa-su-family-tree-shows-how-closely-they-are-related https://www.tomshardware.com/news/jensen-huang-and-lisa-su-f... Still, I always loved how immigrants to the US always ended up in high level positions, starting or leading top US companies, something that never/rarely happens here in Europe where maintaining the status quo and the "natural order" gets priority at all cost.
- frfl 3y ago
  Maybe the Wikipedia page was just updated, following this post, but it's fairly clear right now. It says fairly clearly in the infobox, "Jensen Huang (表舅 or first cousin once removed)"
  - deleted 3y ago
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  - FirmwareBurner 3y ago
    > It says fairly clearly in the infobox, "Jensen Huang (表舅 or first cousin once removed)" It was already there, but depending where you're from, "first cousin once removed" might not mean anything to you, especially if English is not your mother tongue. Seeing a family tree makes it clear for everyone regardless of language or culture what the relationship is.
    - School-Cotton 3y ago
      I would be willing to bet that 95% of native English speakers can't confidently define "first cousin once removed" (though most of them will have heard the term).
    - oh_sigh 3y ago
      Except it doesn't! In fact, first cousin once removed(FCOR) can mean both: your parent's sibling's grandchild, OR your grandparent's sibling's child. These are usually two very different relationships(if they exist) - the former FCOR is usually much younger than you, like a niece/nephew, and the latter FCOR is usually much older than you, and more like an aunt/uncle I wager most native English speakers understand the concept of cousin, but not first/second/etc cousins, nor once/twice/etc removed.
  - deleted 3y ago
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  - Kiro 3y ago
    "once removed" is not clear at all. To me, it reads like nonsense.
    - nashashmi 3y ago
      It's descriptively clear.
    - OJFord 3y ago
      It's a standard term. I'll assume you're familiar with 'cousin' (in the strict English/western sense), aka (rarely, only really in contradistinction) 'first cousin'. 1. Your parents' [first] cousins' children are your 'second cousins'; 2. Your parents' second cousins' children are your 'third cousins' (and so on); 3. Your parents' [first] cousins are your '[first] cousins once removed'; 4. Your parents' second cousins are your 'second cousins once removed' (and so on); 5. Your parents' [first] cousins once removed are your '[first] cousins twice removed' (and so on).
      - Kiro 3y ago
        "once removed" is such a strange term to me. It reads like they become first cousins only once something unspecified was removed. Like "once the tumor was removed the patient survived". I'm obviously not a native English speaker.
        OJFord 3y ago
        'Removed' is (also) used like degrees of separation, if you're familiar with Bacon or Erdos numbers for example. 'I took the leap into management, but my current role still isn't that far removed from programming'. The 'once' here means 'one time', not 'when it has happened that'. cf. my 'twice removed' example above.
    - deleted 3y ago
      [deleted]
- FredPret 3y ago
  Ambitious, capitalistic emigrants are going to choose the US over anywhere else. In addition, for immigrants from Europe/Asia/Africa, the US has almost complete power to pick and choose candidates whereas Europe is physically attached. One last factor I noticed as an immigrant is that newer societies, like the US and Canada, are easier to fit into. For older ones like in Europe, it's just harder to change your identity and gain acceptance. This isn't a fault on Europe's part, it's probably just natural progression.
  - adra 3y ago
    The enterprising Indian and Chinese citizen should know that it could be basically decades to immigrate to the US, so they're choosing anywhere else as a better substitute (or finding loopholes like gaining citizenship in other nations that don't have as long a waiting list?). Based on the current economic regime, it could be decades before candidates are granted permanent citizenship.
    - eldaisfish 3y ago
      that is a bureaucratic hurdle that has little to do with the actual desirability of the USA as an immigration destination. The fact that so many Indians and Chinese nationals continue to move to the USA despite the immigration challenge is testament to this.
  - shaism 3y ago
    Fully agree. Even as second generation immigrant, meaning being born in the EU, I feel less accepted in the EU than when I lived in the US for two years. I felt that doing things “differently” or having unique background is more often perceived positively in the US than in the EU. In the EU, the norms force you to fit in, whereas in the US, you are allowed to pave your own way, whether that means success or failure.
  - FirmwareBurner 3y ago
    >This isn't a fault on Europe's part, it's probably just natural progression. I'd say it is, considering they/we have decades of data on what makes immigrants successful and what not.
- doytch 3y ago
  Language probably plays a non-insignificant role. I'd hazard a guess that more Indians and Chinese (the nationalities that are fairly well-represented in US leadership positions) are learning English than German, Polish or Slovak.
  - FirmwareBurner 3y ago
    >Language probably plays a non-insignificant role. Maybe so, but even Sony and Nissan had non-Japanese speaking CEOs for a while and Japan is not really know for its openness and progressiveness to foreigners. Also, we're talking about global tech companies which reap profits from the global economy, so fluency of the local language that's only spoken by 5% of the world's population shouldn't matter that much, when those mega-corps hire teams of cultural and language experts for each market anyway. I'd say it's more culture, mentality and protectionism of the status quo, than the language itself.
    - whimsicalism 3y ago
      Which Sony CEO are you referring to? I think the Nissan case is a bit of an exception and if anything demonstrates how reluctant the Japanese are to have major Japanese multinationals run by someone not Japanese.
      - FirmwareBurner 3y ago
        Howard Stringer and Andrew House were head honchos at Sony.
        tapoxi 3y ago
        House was Sony Computer Entertainment (PlayStation) which is based in San Mateo.
  - wddkcs 3y ago
    This could be changing, ai translation knocking down communication barriers.
- atyppo 3y ago
  I agree that it appears externally that immigrants to the US tend to succeed more than those to Europe, but what's the cause? Higher wages and a stronger economy certainly play a role, but I suspect there's more at play here. A more selective visa program? It's one I would argue is overly selective especially when considering that one can be born here to illegal immigrants and be a US citizen.
- yieldcrv 3y ago
  > here in Europe got it. so here in the US, the overachieving immigrant stereotype is an assumption that is waning in popularity, specifically because it further marginalizes all the immigrants that are not overachievers and do not have the cultural or socioeconomic support system, while other residents assume those immigrants don't need support simply by factor of looking similar to another immigrant. the phrasing is important. its fine to admire that there is a frequency of visible acceptance and elevation into high level positions. your words say you don't realize how rare that is.
- deleted 3y ago
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- throwawayadvsec 3y ago
  The US are a younger country and it's full of immigrants/children of immigrants. Most of the money here is old money. There are dozens of implicit rules. In France having a teacher as a parent is a better indicator of whether you'll get into a top school than being rich. Because you have to know all the tricks in the book to get anywhere. From my POV getting into Ivy League seems as simple as getting a high SAT, applying, getting approved for a loan. In France, most immigrants kids don't even know the possible paths to get into a top school. Also yes, salary plays a big role, if you're part of the top 1% of your country intellectual elite, I'd bet you'd rather cross an ocean for 6 figures than for 2000 euros a month and free healthcare.
  - dustincoates 3y ago
    As an immigrant to France who wants my kids to succeed… how do I learn these paths?
    - FirmwareBurner 3y ago
      Have 2 hour lunch breaks and a strike, or just emigrate to french speaking part of Switzerland? /s
    - ant6n 3y ago
      Move to Quebec.
      - eldaisfish 3y ago
        Terrible idea if you are not white, do not have a French surname or are visibly muslim.
        ant6n 3y ago
        Worse than France? Doubt it. In Quebec You mostly need to speak properly. Plus, if you have French citizenship, u get cheap access to some pretty good universities.
    - 3y ago
- bakuninsbart 3y ago
  I think a major difference, at least to my country, Germany, is that in the US the university you graduate from has an outsized influence on your career potential, especially when it comes to senior positions at large companies. On the contrary, here in Germany these positions are usually filled through either familial connections or company-internal mentorships. Board members and C-suite often have been with the company for at least 20 years. One other difference is that all the major companies in Germany are very old, and around half of them are either privately owned, or state companies. BionTech, the last company to really rise to the major players was actually founded and is being led by immigrants.
  - agloe_dreams 3y ago
    A key element in the US is that VC is a poison. With growth at all costs as a priority, many US companies are focused on getting whomever is willing to push sales over all else, this generally requires a name with a history of success so most internal hires are out. Also, most of these companies won't exist in 20 years to have someone whom has been there for 20 years.
    - mustafa_pasi 3y ago
      But the US is still performing better on all metrics: 1. more innovation 2. high economic growth 3. better salaries Whatever you are doing works.
      - polygamous_bat 3y ago
        > 1. more innovation How do we quantify it? And how do we know that it is not the result of metric-hacking, as the GP commented, and is actually true "innovation"? > 2. high economic growth Same as above. > 3. better salaries Only for a small slice of the population. Income inequality is growing across the country, and it is not an obviously good thing if a small fraction of the country is getting boundlessly richer while the rest of the country/world suffers.
      - kla-s 3y ago
- princeb 3y ago
  > immigrants to the US always ended up in high level positions this is a myth. even if you just look at asian immigrant groups alone, many groups do very poorly economically - the burmese, hmongs, nepalis etc are all poorer than the average american. in fact, i think the only asian ethnicity that is over-represented in business leadership are not the chinese nor the japanese but the indians, and i don't even think that's true specifically for first-generation or even second-generation americans of indian origin.
  - pfannkuchen 3y ago
    That doesn’t make it a myth, it just means that not every immigrant group has an equal chance. Do you think there is some super granular discrimination going on though? Seems more correlated with how developed the country of origin is.
    - hnhamdani2 3y ago
      I think, it's more like, it's not pure meritocracy as well. It's kind of a mix between meritocracy, community role model and a sprinkle of nepotisms. While it's ingrained in the culture, to be the best you can be for certain communities, having tons of people with the same ethnicity/community/caste benefit you as well. People don't go climbing up the higher echelons on pure meritocracy. There is a reason Indians are over-represented among other Asian ethnicities and that is not pure meritocracy.
- zarkov99 3y ago
  I do not see it that way. I was born in Europe and immigrated to the US. In my mind the differences is that the US attracts more ambitious and talented people than Europe.
  - epolanski 3y ago
    Don't forget friendlier business conditions both in taxes and bureaucracy. Few of my friends that launched startups, despite being based in Europe, working from Europe, and everyone being European, incorporated in Delaware anyway. US is simply friendlier to ambitious and greedy people. You can be so anywhere in the world but you won't get the same benefits you get in the United States.
    - martinald 3y ago
      Not sure this is true for all of Europe. The UK has remarkably little bureaucracy for companies. Costs about $15 to incorporate a company, which takes ~minutes, and then you just need to file corporation taxes + a balance sheet once a year, which is all possible to do via APIs and a (inexpensive) accounting package in a few clicks. VAT needs to be done over around $100k/year turnover 4 times a year, but again that is possible to do in a couple of clicks via APIs and accounting packages. And finally payroll taxes are pretty simple too, again can be done via accounting packages. From what I know this is much less hassle than most/all US states. But some EU countries (germany especially) are horrendous, so it's not a clear picture.
      - epolanski 3y ago
        US' advantage isn't only bureaucracy, it's also legal and last but not least access to capital and a giant market (US is much less dependent on export than EU). It's a deadly combination for entrepreneurs UK can't offer.
  - hot_gril 3y ago
    My Middle Eastern family members always say the word around their nations of origin is, move to the US if you want to work hard and succeed, move to Germany or France if you want to chill and get free money.
- jsiepkes 3y ago
  > something that never/rarely happens here in Europe where maintaining the status quo and the "natural order" gets priority at all cost. That's not a thing unique to Europe. Same goes for almost every Asian company with Korean, Taiwanese, etc. roots. It even goes further then the Asian continent. For example the president of Samsung Benelux is June Young Park.
- automatic6131 3y ago
  >something that never/rarely happens here in Europe The English PM is the son of Indian immigrants though
  - soligern 3y ago
    66 of the top 500 unicorns in the US have Indian founders. I don’t think you would see that in Europe.
  - eldaisfish 3y ago
    Yes, the UK is the exception in Europe. The ethnic diversity of the European Parliament dropped significantly after Brexit.
- lm28469 3y ago
  > how immigrants to the US always ended up in high level positions What's your definition of "always" ?
- eldaisfish 3y ago
  Immigration is a choice and this acts as a filter. Second - the USA and many new world societies are not built around ethnicity. This means that hard work has a decent return on investment. In the old world, who you are and whom you know are often more important than your skills. European society is constructed around sharply defined ethnic groups, often identified by name and appearance. Ethnicity cannot be changed. Curiously, Indians and Chinese nationals tend to do well in the USA because their motherlands are poor. This means that only the most well off can even contemplate moving to the USA. Obviously, these folks do well relative to poorer immigrants. Europe's other problem is that it attracts mostly low skilled, older immigrants.
- tazjin 3y ago
  This happens in European tech companies, there just aren't many (that aren't American anyways).
- epolanski 3y ago
  > something that never/rarely happens here in Europe It's a young country built on the premise of immigration and kicking out the natives, that might be part of it.
- pastacacioepepe 3y ago
  Way to spin it! Completely ignore the family cartel thingy and focus on the American dream.
- purpleblue 3y ago
  First cousins once removed is the relationship between yourself and your cousin's children. You and your children are first cousins. Your children and your cousin's children are 2nd cousins. Your children and your cousin's children's children and 2nd cousins once-removed.
- jxramos 3y ago
  I think there's a lot packed into that at all cost phrase at the end. I'm realizing that with development of technology or the pursuit of truth, anything that detracts from some main objective comes at some cost. When political angling arises, or maintaining the status quo, or whatever extra objective is added and overlayed onto a project which is not directly aligned with the outcome of the project you expose your development to getting lost in the weeds of suboptimality. How deep can those weeds get? Who knows, but trying to maintain face or balance a lot of other accessory details can occupy a lot of time and attention. This kind of harkens to the optimality surrounding meritocracy based systems.
- dahart 3y ago
  > wth does “first cousin once removed” even mean? First cousin means they share a grandparent, second cousin means they share a great-grandparent, etc. Once removed means they’re offset by 1 generation, so one person’s grandparent is the other’s great-grandparent. There is a directionality; the person who is “once removed” is the one whose parent is first cousins with other other person. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cousin https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cousin
- avgcorrection 3y ago
  https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/first_cousin_once_removed https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/first_cousin_once_removed
- Jenk 3y ago
  > wth does "first cousin once removed" even mean? It is using a very well established (i.e., has been used for a long time) terminology to describe familial relationships. The "first" refers to how many horizontal genealogy lines are crossed (self -> sibling -> first cousin -> second cousin -> etc.) the "once" refers to the vertical, so the "first cousin once removed" refers to either your cousin's parent or child, and as we refer to our cousin's parents as aunt or uncle, we usually conclude that your "first cousin once remove" is your aunt/uncle's grandchild, ergo your [first] cousin's child.
  - riffic 3y ago
    I was going to reply with a similar explanation but then upon a reread it seemed like a flippant remark that didn't seem like an earnest inquiry. do people just not know how to Google things these days?
- deleted 3y ago
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- HWR_14 3y ago
  > never/rarely happens here in Europe where maintaining the status quo and the "natural order" gets priority at all cost. The US lets people rise to higher heights, but income mobility is better in many parts of Europe. That is, the odds of moving from low or lower-middle class parents to the upper-middle class are higher in most major European countries (e.g. UK, France, Germany, Scandinavian). For that matter, it is also better in Japan, Australia and Canada. [0] Or maybe what I saw is flawed and biased. I haven't spent a lot of time confirming it. I definitely have seen the claim pop up from time to time. It makes intuitive sense that society could prioritize either goal but that policies that help one hurt the other. [0] https://www.visualcapitalist.com/ranked-the-social-mobility-of-82-countries/ https://www.visualcapitalist.com/ranked-the-social-mobility-...
- foogazi 3y ago
  > Still, I always loved how immigrants to the US always ended up in high level positions, starting or leading top US companies Yea, we are all tech CEOs over here
- david38 3y ago
  I assure you it’s not “always.”
- TMWNN 3y ago
  >Still, I always loved how immigrants to the US always ended up in high level positions, starting or leading top US companies, something that never/rarely happens here in Europe where maintaining the status quo and the "natural order" gets priority at all cost. I read an interesting point recently: Austria's 100 wealthiest families have two thirds of the country's wealth, and zero have earned their money from technology; they've all inherited it. How different would the same list be for Germany? One, perhaps two families earned their fortunes from tech?
seeknotfind 3y ago
Jenson Huang is extremely nice and personable.
- newsclues 3y ago
  Just hates gamers!
  - stu2b50 3y ago
    It’s hard to blame him for that, tbh
- DonHopkins 3y ago
  He has a great spatula collection.
gok 3y ago
Well that's gotta be an awkward family dinner.
- agloe_dreams 3y ago
  Eh, I bet they are actually quite friendly. Supposedly they both are very nice and I would argue that nobody understands each other's life better than each other. Plus, much of all of this is to their own gain. If AMD killed their GPU division, then Nvidia would be a monopoly and might get broken up or stagnate so a different company could swoop in and kill them. AMD's bet on TSMC is NVIDIA's 4090 gains.
zeroonetwothree 3y ago
“Uncle” has a specific meaning in English and so this title is misleading.
- hn_throwaway_99 3y ago
  Yeah, they are first cousins once removed.
- cosmojg 3y ago
  Nah, both my English-speaking and Italian-speaking family use "uncle" and "aunt" with a similar amount of ambiguity. It's a term of respect for elder family members, extended or otherwise.
  - kaashif 3y ago
    On the other hand, I've never heard of uncle meaning any family member other than the brother of a parent. At the very least, we can agree that using "uncle" like this is incredibly easily misinterpreted.
    - joelfried 3y ago
      I'm a bit surprised you've never heard of the spouse of a parental sibling called an uncle as well. To make that more explicit: my father's sister is my aunt, and her husband is my uncle.
      - flufferstutter 3y ago
        That is definitely common in my experience. Now calling the brother of my parent’s brother’s wife “uncle” might be a bit of stretch.
      - kaashif 3y ago
        Oh, I meant brother in law too, actually. But my point is, anything beyond that isn't something I've heard.
    - 3y ago
whimsicalism 3y ago
I have always found it surprising that the CEO of Nvidia just happens to be Taiwanese-American given the prominence of Taiwan in the semiconductor business but AFAIK he was not raised in Taiwan
mmaunder 3y ago
She is his first cousin once removed, if you want to get technical about it. She’s his cousins kid.
- onehair 3y ago
  In some cultures, that's not too far :P Where I am from, I have met all my grandfather's siblings and their entire sub families every year and we have very close ties.
aikinai 3y ago
Thomas Kurian, the CEO of Google Cloud, is identical twins with George Kurian, CEO of NetApp.
- agloe_dreams 3y ago
  Have we considered just having one guy run 10 different companies that will sometimes cross each other's path? Saves on the number of kids you need that are related.
  - vasco 3y ago
    Blackrock and Citadel enter the chat.
- klohto 3y ago
  Has anyone seen them together in a room, hmm?
- boeingUH60 3y ago
  Another example but not tech; Doug Lawler, CEO of oil giant Continental Resources, is the brother of David Lawler, CEO of BP America.
synergy20 3y ago
More than that, people tied to Taiwan have always been super influential about semiconductor industry at large, from Cadence to Nvidia/AMD/Mediatek to TSMC, they're doing really well. EE is hard to take on for kids born in US, life is comfortable why bother? so immigrants and their kids filled the vacancy, could this be a possible reason of it?
- BearOso 3y ago
  They're both at least masters of EE, and not drop-outs. I find that refreshing for CEOs, and it shows an individual passion for and knowledge of their product. Intel's new CEO Gelsinger follows the same trend after a slew of MBAs. I'm hoping this means more competition and progression.
deleted 3y ago
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lukaesch 3y ago
I met him in person at the Nvidia AI inception event in Berlin a few weeks ago. Very friendly and down to earth personality. He said that Nvidia had tough competition when he started (there was only on chip graphics acceleration in 1994) and literally no market for his product because no applications/games supported external graphic acceleration. Still, he and his team were convinced that general purpose computing (CPUs) for everything is not as good as providing a dedicated, specialized computing unit (in this case for graphics). So they just built it and made it. Even though they were nearly bankrupt for multiple times, they survived until 2023 and established themselves as a leader in their field. He basically worked on this for 30 years. Not many founders show the same endurance.
hypeit 3y ago
Important to remember this kind of stuff when people tell you to work hard (for them) to get ahead. We're all just worker bees enriching a small network of capital holders.
hn_throwaway_99 3y ago
Dara Khosrowshahi, CEO of Uber and former CEO of Expedia, also has a pretty illustrious immigrant family - see the Personal Life section of his Wikipedia page: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dara_Khosrowshahi https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dara_Khosrowshahi
- walthamstow 3y ago
  Rich Iranians fleeing the revolution with their money and becoming rich Britons or Americans is not exactly a fairytale. Just because someone is an immigrant it doesn't mean they earned everything by their bootstraps.
  - hn_throwaway_99 3y ago
    > Just because someone is an immigrant it doesn't mean they earned everything by their bootstraps. First of all, I never said it did. More importantly, though, they weren't able to flee the revolution with all their money, as most of it was confiscated by the Iranian government. These types of folks are quite privileged, but not in ways that are often presented in arguments like the one you gave, i.e. "they were just born into money". Their main privileges are connections, their inherent confidence and belief that they have the power to be successful, and a deeply ingrained work ethic.
  - Daktest 3y ago
    According to the source article in Wikipedia: "“We had very limited money,” Lili Khosrowshahi recalled of the family’s early days in the U.S. “I’d never worked before. I started working full-time, and every penny we earned was put in Dara [and two other son’s] education… and it was expensive. I remember at the time coffee was $0.15 [a cup], and I wouldn’t buy a cup of coffee for myself.”" https://observer.com/2018/10/uber-ceo-dara-khosrowshahi-mother-health-insurance-fortune-women-summit/ https://observer.com/2018/10/uber-ceo-dara-khosrowshahi-moth...
    - walthamstow 3y ago
      A lot of centimillionaires and billionaires tell a story like this, people usually take them with a pinch of salt. I see it was her first ever media appearance. A lot of expensive PR went into those quotes you're repeating.
bee_rider 3y ago
Merge Intel and Nvidia, put Huang in charge of both, to cause family drama and get us some good chips.
riffic 3y ago
"it's a big club and you ain't in it" https://www.azquotes.com/quote/543644 https://www.azquotes.com/quote/543644
ChrisArchitect 3y ago
Discussed just two months ago under the profile piece on her: Lisa Su saved AMD – Now she wants Nvidia's AI crown https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36164887 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36164887
saaspirant 3y ago
Related: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Friedman_doctrine https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Friedman_doctrine Context: https://old.reddit.com/r/videos/comments/jbqm8x/its_a_big_club_and_you_aint_in_it_george_carlin/g8x14pm/ https://old.reddit.com/r/videos/comments/jbqm8x/its_a_big_cl...
bragr 3y ago
Kind of a tangent, but I worked for a Chinese company for a couple years as the only westerner mostly. My coworkers and I had so much confusion talking about family until the mutual realization that we were not using words the same way and understood some concepts differently. That lead to a lot of sitting around and pointing at a family tree going "ok who would this person be to you, how important?", and sometimes really surprising each other. Long way of saying, she may call him uncle, but he's not her uncle in the western European/Anglo-american sense.
- whimsicalism 3y ago
  Is it western European or anglo? My Portuguese family will call me uncle sometimes but perhaps that is just because first cousin or whatever is too difficult of a concept
  - bragr 3y ago
    There's some variation of course, but the family dynamics in western Europe all seem pretty similar to me, at least compare to the chinese clan system or other systems around the world. You can probably blame the Catholic church for that ;)
lost_tourist 3y ago
While nepotism/name recognition will give you a leg up, it will not keep you in the driver's set. Lisa has done a great job at AMD and good chance the company might be dead by now without her.
dang 3y ago
"Please use the original title, unless it is misleading or linkbait; don't editorialize." If you want to say what you think is important about an article, that's fine, but do it by adding a comment to the thread. Then your view will be on a level playing field with everyone else's: https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=false&sort=byDate&type=comment&query=%22level%20playing%20field%22%20by:dang https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=false&so... An alternative is to find a different article that's more focused on the point you think is important. For example the link that FirmwareBurner found (https://www.tomshardware.com/news/jensen-huang-and-lisa-su-family-tree-shows-how-closely-they-are-related https://www.tomshardware.com/news/jensen-huang-and-lisa-su-f..., via https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36956184 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36956184) would have been a better submission in this case.

158 points by rlprompt 3y ago

The wiki does a bad job of clarifying what the relationship is (wth does "first cousin once removed" even mean?). Here's a family tree: https://www.tomshardware.com/news/jensen-huang-and-lisa-su-family-tree-shows-how-closely-they-are-related https://www.tomshardware.com/news/jensen-huang-and-lisa-su-f... Still, I always loved how immigrants to the US always ended up in high level positions, starting or leading top US companies, something that never/rarely happens here in Europe where maintaining the status quo and the "natural order" gets priority at all cost.

frfl 3y ago
Maybe the Wikipedia page was just updated, following this post, but it's fairly clear right now. It says fairly clearly in the infobox, "Jensen Huang (表舅 or first cousin once removed)"
- deleted 3y ago
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- FirmwareBurner 3y ago
  > It says fairly clearly in the infobox, "Jensen Huang (表舅 or first cousin once removed)" It was already there, but depending where you're from, "first cousin once removed" might not mean anything to you, especially if English is not your mother tongue. Seeing a family tree makes it clear for everyone regardless of language or culture what the relationship is.
  - School-Cotton 3y ago
    I would be willing to bet that 95% of native English speakers can't confidently define "first cousin once removed" (though most of them will have heard the term).
  - oh_sigh 3y ago
    Except it doesn't! In fact, first cousin once removed(FCOR) can mean both: your parent's sibling's grandchild, OR your grandparent's sibling's child. These are usually two very different relationships(if they exist) - the former FCOR is usually much younger than you, like a niece/nephew, and the latter FCOR is usually much older than you, and more like an aunt/uncle I wager most native English speakers understand the concept of cousin, but not first/second/etc cousins, nor once/twice/etc removed.
- deleted 3y ago
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- Kiro 3y ago
  "once removed" is not clear at all. To me, it reads like nonsense.
  - nashashmi 3y ago
    It's descriptively clear.
  - OJFord 3y ago
    It's a standard term. I'll assume you're familiar with 'cousin' (in the strict English/western sense), aka (rarely, only really in contradistinction) 'first cousin'. 1. Your parents' [first] cousins' children are your 'second cousins'; 2. Your parents' second cousins' children are your 'third cousins' (and so on); 3. Your parents' [first] cousins are your '[first] cousins once removed'; 4. Your parents' second cousins are your 'second cousins once removed' (and so on); 5. Your parents' [first] cousins once removed are your '[first] cousins twice removed' (and so on).
    - Kiro 3y ago
      "once removed" is such a strange term to me. It reads like they become first cousins only once something unspecified was removed. Like "once the tumor was removed the patient survived". I'm obviously not a native English speaker.
      - OJFord 3y ago
        'Removed' is (also) used like degrees of separation, if you're familiar with Bacon or Erdos numbers for example. 'I took the leap into management, but my current role still isn't that far removed from programming'. The 'once' here means 'one time', not 'when it has happened that'. cf. my 'twice removed' example above.
  - deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]
FredPret 3y ago
Ambitious, capitalistic emigrants are going to choose the US over anywhere else. In addition, for immigrants from Europe/Asia/Africa, the US has almost complete power to pick and choose candidates whereas Europe is physically attached. One last factor I noticed as an immigrant is that newer societies, like the US and Canada, are easier to fit into. For older ones like in Europe, it's just harder to change your identity and gain acceptance. This isn't a fault on Europe's part, it's probably just natural progression.
- adra 3y ago
  The enterprising Indian and Chinese citizen should know that it could be basically decades to immigrate to the US, so they're choosing anywhere else as a better substitute (or finding loopholes like gaining citizenship in other nations that don't have as long a waiting list?). Based on the current economic regime, it could be decades before candidates are granted permanent citizenship.
  - eldaisfish 3y ago
    that is a bureaucratic hurdle that has little to do with the actual desirability of the USA as an immigration destination. The fact that so many Indians and Chinese nationals continue to move to the USA despite the immigration challenge is testament to this.
- shaism 3y ago
  Fully agree. Even as second generation immigrant, meaning being born in the EU, I feel less accepted in the EU than when I lived in the US for two years. I felt that doing things “differently” or having unique background is more often perceived positively in the US than in the EU. In the EU, the norms force you to fit in, whereas in the US, you are allowed to pave your own way, whether that means success or failure.
- FirmwareBurner 3y ago
  >This isn't a fault on Europe's part, it's probably just natural progression. I'd say it is, considering they/we have decades of data on what makes immigrants successful and what not.
doytch 3y ago
Language probably plays a non-insignificant role. I'd hazard a guess that more Indians and Chinese (the nationalities that are fairly well-represented in US leadership positions) are learning English than German, Polish or Slovak.
- FirmwareBurner 3y ago
  >Language probably plays a non-insignificant role. Maybe so, but even Sony and Nissan had non-Japanese speaking CEOs for a while and Japan is not really know for its openness and progressiveness to foreigners. Also, we're talking about global tech companies which reap profits from the global economy, so fluency of the local language that's only spoken by 5% of the world's population shouldn't matter that much, when those mega-corps hire teams of cultural and language experts for each market anyway. I'd say it's more culture, mentality and protectionism of the status quo, than the language itself.
  - whimsicalism 3y ago
    Which Sony CEO are you referring to? I think the Nissan case is a bit of an exception and if anything demonstrates how reluctant the Japanese are to have major Japanese multinationals run by someone not Japanese.
    - FirmwareBurner 3y ago
      Howard Stringer and Andrew House were head honchos at Sony.
      - tapoxi 3y ago
        House was Sony Computer Entertainment (PlayStation) which is based in San Mateo.
- wddkcs 3y ago
  This could be changing, ai translation knocking down communication barriers.
atyppo 3y ago
I agree that it appears externally that immigrants to the US tend to succeed more than those to Europe, but what's the cause? Higher wages and a stronger economy certainly play a role, but I suspect there's more at play here. A more selective visa program? It's one I would argue is overly selective especially when considering that one can be born here to illegal immigrants and be a US citizen.
yieldcrv 3y ago
> here in Europe got it. so here in the US, the overachieving immigrant stereotype is an assumption that is waning in popularity, specifically because it further marginalizes all the immigrants that are not overachievers and do not have the cultural or socioeconomic support system, while other residents assume those immigrants don't need support simply by factor of looking similar to another immigrant. the phrasing is important. its fine to admire that there is a frequency of visible acceptance and elevation into high level positions. your words say you don't realize how rare that is.
deleted 3y ago
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throwawayadvsec 3y ago
The US are a younger country and it's full of immigrants/children of immigrants. Most of the money here is old money. There are dozens of implicit rules. In France having a teacher as a parent is a better indicator of whether you'll get into a top school than being rich. Because you have to know all the tricks in the book to get anywhere. From my POV getting into Ivy League seems as simple as getting a high SAT, applying, getting approved for a loan. In France, most immigrants kids don't even know the possible paths to get into a top school. Also yes, salary plays a big role, if you're part of the top 1% of your country intellectual elite, I'd bet you'd rather cross an ocean for 6 figures than for 2000 euros a month and free healthcare.
- dustincoates 3y ago
  As an immigrant to France who wants my kids to succeed… how do I learn these paths?
  - FirmwareBurner 3y ago
    Have 2 hour lunch breaks and a strike, or just emigrate to french speaking part of Switzerland? /s
  - ant6n 3y ago
    Move to Quebec.
    - eldaisfish 3y ago
      Terrible idea if you are not white, do not have a French surname or are visibly muslim.
      - ant6n 3y ago
        Worse than France? Doubt it. In Quebec You mostly need to speak properly. Plus, if you have French citizenship, u get cheap access to some pretty good universities.
  - 3y ago
bakuninsbart 3y ago
I think a major difference, at least to my country, Germany, is that in the US the university you graduate from has an outsized influence on your career potential, especially when it comes to senior positions at large companies. On the contrary, here in Germany these positions are usually filled through either familial connections or company-internal mentorships. Board members and C-suite often have been with the company for at least 20 years. One other difference is that all the major companies in Germany are very old, and around half of them are either privately owned, or state companies. BionTech, the last company to really rise to the major players was actually founded and is being led by immigrants.
- agloe_dreams 3y ago
  A key element in the US is that VC is a poison. With growth at all costs as a priority, many US companies are focused on getting whomever is willing to push sales over all else, this generally requires a name with a history of success so most internal hires are out. Also, most of these companies won't exist in 20 years to have someone whom has been there for 20 years.
  - mustafa_pasi 3y ago
    But the US is still performing better on all metrics: 1. more innovation 2. high economic growth 3. better salaries Whatever you are doing works.
    - polygamous_bat 3y ago
      > 1. more innovation How do we quantify it? And how do we know that it is not the result of metric-hacking, as the GP commented, and is actually true "innovation"? > 2. high economic growth Same as above. > 3. better salaries Only for a small slice of the population. Income inequality is growing across the country, and it is not an obviously good thing if a small fraction of the country is getting boundlessly richer while the rest of the country/world suffers.
    - kla-s 3y ago
princeb 3y ago
> immigrants to the US always ended up in high level positions this is a myth. even if you just look at asian immigrant groups alone, many groups do very poorly economically - the burmese, hmongs, nepalis etc are all poorer than the average american. in fact, i think the only asian ethnicity that is over-represented in business leadership are not the chinese nor the japanese but the indians, and i don't even think that's true specifically for first-generation or even second-generation americans of indian origin.
- pfannkuchen 3y ago
  That doesn’t make it a myth, it just means that not every immigrant group has an equal chance. Do you think there is some super granular discrimination going on though? Seems more correlated with how developed the country of origin is.
  - hnhamdani2 3y ago
    I think, it's more like, it's not pure meritocracy as well. It's kind of a mix between meritocracy, community role model and a sprinkle of nepotisms. While it's ingrained in the culture, to be the best you can be for certain communities, having tons of people with the same ethnicity/community/caste benefit you as well. People don't go climbing up the higher echelons on pure meritocracy. There is a reason Indians are over-represented among other Asian ethnicities and that is not pure meritocracy.
zarkov99 3y ago
I do not see it that way. I was born in Europe and immigrated to the US. In my mind the differences is that the US attracts more ambitious and talented people than Europe.
- epolanski 3y ago
  Don't forget friendlier business conditions both in taxes and bureaucracy. Few of my friends that launched startups, despite being based in Europe, working from Europe, and everyone being European, incorporated in Delaware anyway. US is simply friendlier to ambitious and greedy people. You can be so anywhere in the world but you won't get the same benefits you get in the United States.
  - martinald 3y ago
    Not sure this is true for all of Europe. The UK has remarkably little bureaucracy for companies. Costs about $15 to incorporate a company, which takes ~minutes, and then you just need to file corporation taxes + a balance sheet once a year, which is all possible to do via APIs and a (inexpensive) accounting package in a few clicks. VAT needs to be done over around $100k/year turnover 4 times a year, but again that is possible to do in a couple of clicks via APIs and accounting packages. And finally payroll taxes are pretty simple too, again can be done via accounting packages. From what I know this is much less hassle than most/all US states. But some EU countries (germany especially) are horrendous, so it's not a clear picture.
    - epolanski 3y ago
      US' advantage isn't only bureaucracy, it's also legal and last but not least access to capital and a giant market (US is much less dependent on export than EU). It's a deadly combination for entrepreneurs UK can't offer.
- hot_gril 3y ago
  My Middle Eastern family members always say the word around their nations of origin is, move to the US if you want to work hard and succeed, move to Germany or France if you want to chill and get free money.
jsiepkes 3y ago
> something that never/rarely happens here in Europe where maintaining the status quo and the "natural order" gets priority at all cost. That's not a thing unique to Europe. Same goes for almost every Asian company with Korean, Taiwanese, etc. roots. It even goes further then the Asian continent. For example the president of Samsung Benelux is June Young Park.
automatic6131 3y ago
>something that never/rarely happens here in Europe The English PM is the son of Indian immigrants though
- soligern 3y ago
  66 of the top 500 unicorns in the US have Indian founders. I don’t think you would see that in Europe.
- eldaisfish 3y ago
  Yes, the UK is the exception in Europe. The ethnic diversity of the European Parliament dropped significantly after Brexit.
lm28469 3y ago
> how immigrants to the US always ended up in high level positions What's your definition of "always" ?
eldaisfish 3y ago
Immigration is a choice and this acts as a filter. Second - the USA and many new world societies are not built around ethnicity. This means that hard work has a decent return on investment. In the old world, who you are and whom you know are often more important than your skills. European society is constructed around sharply defined ethnic groups, often identified by name and appearance. Ethnicity cannot be changed. Curiously, Indians and Chinese nationals tend to do well in the USA because their motherlands are poor. This means that only the most well off can even contemplate moving to the USA. Obviously, these folks do well relative to poorer immigrants. Europe's other problem is that it attracts mostly low skilled, older immigrants.
tazjin 3y ago
This happens in European tech companies, there just aren't many (that aren't American anyways).
epolanski 3y ago
> something that never/rarely happens here in Europe It's a young country built on the premise of immigration and kicking out the natives, that might be part of it.
pastacacioepepe 3y ago
Way to spin it! Completely ignore the family cartel thingy and focus on the American dream.
purpleblue 3y ago
First cousins once removed is the relationship between yourself and your cousin's children. You and your children are first cousins. Your children and your cousin's children are 2nd cousins. Your children and your cousin's children's children and 2nd cousins once-removed.
jxramos 3y ago
I think there's a lot packed into that at all cost phrase at the end. I'm realizing that with development of technology or the pursuit of truth, anything that detracts from some main objective comes at some cost. When political angling arises, or maintaining the status quo, or whatever extra objective is added and overlayed onto a project which is not directly aligned with the outcome of the project you expose your development to getting lost in the weeds of suboptimality. How deep can those weeds get? Who knows, but trying to maintain face or balance a lot of other accessory details can occupy a lot of time and attention. This kind of harkens to the optimality surrounding meritocracy based systems.
dahart 3y ago
> wth does “first cousin once removed” even mean? First cousin means they share a grandparent, second cousin means they share a great-grandparent, etc. Once removed means they’re offset by 1 generation, so one person’s grandparent is the other’s great-grandparent. There is a directionality; the person who is “once removed” is the one whose parent is first cousins with other other person. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cousin https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cousin
avgcorrection 3y ago
https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/first_cousin_once_removed https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/first_cousin_once_removed
Jenk 3y ago
> wth does "first cousin once removed" even mean? It is using a very well established (i.e., has been used for a long time) terminology to describe familial relationships. The "first" refers to how many horizontal genealogy lines are crossed (self -> sibling -> first cousin -> second cousin -> etc.) the "once" refers to the vertical, so the "first cousin once removed" refers to either your cousin's parent or child, and as we refer to our cousin's parents as aunt or uncle, we usually conclude that your "first cousin once remove" is your aunt/uncle's grandchild, ergo your [first] cousin's child.
- riffic 3y ago
  I was going to reply with a similar explanation but then upon a reread it seemed like a flippant remark that didn't seem like an earnest inquiry. do people just not know how to Google things these days?
deleted 3y ago
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HWR_14 3y ago
> never/rarely happens here in Europe where maintaining the status quo and the "natural order" gets priority at all cost. The US lets people rise to higher heights, but income mobility is better in many parts of Europe. That is, the odds of moving from low or lower-middle class parents to the upper-middle class are higher in most major European countries (e.g. UK, France, Germany, Scandinavian). For that matter, it is also better in Japan, Australia and Canada. [0] Or maybe what I saw is flawed and biased. I haven't spent a lot of time confirming it. I definitely have seen the claim pop up from time to time. It makes intuitive sense that society could prioritize either goal but that policies that help one hurt the other. [0] https://www.visualcapitalist.com/ranked-the-social-mobility-of-82-countries/ https://www.visualcapitalist.com/ranked-the-social-mobility-...
foogazi 3y ago
> Still, I always loved how immigrants to the US always ended up in high level positions, starting or leading top US companies Yea, we are all tech CEOs over here
david38 3y ago
I assure you it’s not “always.”
TMWNN 3y ago
>Still, I always loved how immigrants to the US always ended up in high level positions, starting or leading top US companies, something that never/rarely happens here in Europe where maintaining the status quo and the "natural order" gets priority at all cost. I read an interesting point recently: Austria's 100 wealthiest families have two thirds of the country's wealth, and zero have earned their money from technology; they've all inherited it. How different would the same list be for Germany? One, perhaps two families earned their fortunes from tech?

seeknotfind 3y ago

Jenson Huang is extremely nice and personable.

newsclues 3y ago
Just hates gamers!
- stu2b50 3y ago
  It’s hard to blame him for that, tbh
DonHopkins 3y ago
He has a great spatula collection.

gok 3y ago

Well that's gotta be an awkward family dinner.

agloe_dreams 3y ago
Eh, I bet they are actually quite friendly. Supposedly they both are very nice and I would argue that nobody understands each other's life better than each other. Plus, much of all of this is to their own gain. If AMD killed their GPU division, then Nvidia would be a monopoly and might get broken up or stagnate so a different company could swoop in and kill them. AMD's bet on TSMC is NVIDIA's 4090 gains.

zeroonetwothree 3y ago

“Uncle” has a specific meaning in English and so this title is misleading.

hn_throwaway_99 3y ago
Yeah, they are first cousins once removed.
cosmojg 3y ago
Nah, both my English-speaking and Italian-speaking family use "uncle" and "aunt" with a similar amount of ambiguity. It's a term of respect for elder family members, extended or otherwise.
- kaashif 3y ago
  On the other hand, I've never heard of uncle meaning any family member other than the brother of a parent. At the very least, we can agree that using "uncle" like this is incredibly easily misinterpreted.
  - joelfried 3y ago
    I'm a bit surprised you've never heard of the spouse of a parental sibling called an uncle as well. To make that more explicit: my father's sister is my aunt, and her husband is my uncle.
    - flufferstutter 3y ago
      That is definitely common in my experience. Now calling the brother of my parent’s brother’s wife “uncle” might be a bit of stretch.
    - kaashif 3y ago
      Oh, I meant brother in law too, actually. But my point is, anything beyond that isn't something I've heard.
  - 3y ago

whimsicalism 3y ago

I have always found it surprising that the CEO of Nvidia just happens to be Taiwanese-American given the prominence of Taiwan in the semiconductor business but AFAIK he was not raised in Taiwan

mmaunder 3y ago

She is his first cousin once removed, if you want to get technical about it. She’s his cousins kid.

onehair 3y ago
In some cultures, that's not too far :P Where I am from, I have met all my grandfather's siblings and their entire sub families every year and we have very close ties.

aikinai 3y ago

Thomas Kurian, the CEO of Google Cloud, is identical twins with George Kurian, CEO of NetApp.

agloe_dreams 3y ago
Have we considered just having one guy run 10 different companies that will sometimes cross each other's path? Saves on the number of kids you need that are related.
- vasco 3y ago
  Blackrock and Citadel enter the chat.
klohto 3y ago
Has anyone seen them together in a room, hmm?
boeingUH60 3y ago
Another example but not tech; Doug Lawler, CEO of oil giant Continental Resources, is the brother of David Lawler, CEO of BP America.

synergy20 3y ago

More than that, people tied to Taiwan have always been super influential about semiconductor industry at large, from Cadence to Nvidia/AMD/Mediatek to TSMC, they're doing really well. EE is hard to take on for kids born in US, life is comfortable why bother? so immigrants and their kids filled the vacancy, could this be a possible reason of it?

BearOso 3y ago
They're both at least masters of EE, and not drop-outs. I find that refreshing for CEOs, and it shows an individual passion for and knowledge of their product. Intel's new CEO Gelsinger follows the same trend after a slew of MBAs. I'm hoping this means more competition and progression.

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lukaesch 3y ago

I met him in person at the Nvidia AI inception event in Berlin a few weeks ago. Very friendly and down to earth personality. He said that Nvidia had tough competition when he started (there was only on chip graphics acceleration in 1994) and literally no market for his product because no applications/games supported external graphic acceleration. Still, he and his team were convinced that general purpose computing (CPUs) for everything is not as good as providing a dedicated, specialized computing unit (in this case for graphics). So they just built it and made it. Even though they were nearly bankrupt for multiple times, they survived until 2023 and established themselves as a leader in their field. He basically worked on this for 30 years. Not many founders show the same endurance.

hypeit 3y ago

Important to remember this kind of stuff when people tell you to work hard (for them) to get ahead. We're all just worker bees enriching a small network of capital holders.

hn_throwaway_99 3y ago

Dara Khosrowshahi, CEO of Uber and former CEO of Expedia, also has a pretty illustrious immigrant family - see the Personal Life section of his Wikipedia page: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dara_Khosrowshahi https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dara_Khosrowshahi

walthamstow 3y ago
Rich Iranians fleeing the revolution with their money and becoming rich Britons or Americans is not exactly a fairytale. Just because someone is an immigrant it doesn't mean they earned everything by their bootstraps.
- hn_throwaway_99 3y ago
  > Just because someone is an immigrant it doesn't mean they earned everything by their bootstraps. First of all, I never said it did. More importantly, though, they weren't able to flee the revolution with all their money, as most of it was confiscated by the Iranian government. These types of folks are quite privileged, but not in ways that are often presented in arguments like the one you gave, i.e. "they were just born into money". Their main privileges are connections, their inherent confidence and belief that they have the power to be successful, and a deeply ingrained work ethic.
- Daktest 3y ago
  According to the source article in Wikipedia: "“We had very limited money,” Lili Khosrowshahi recalled of the family’s early days in the U.S. “I’d never worked before. I started working full-time, and every penny we earned was put in Dara [and two other son’s] education… and it was expensive. I remember at the time coffee was $0.15 [a cup], and I wouldn’t buy a cup of coffee for myself.”" https://observer.com/2018/10/uber-ceo-dara-khosrowshahi-mother-health-insurance-fortune-women-summit/ https://observer.com/2018/10/uber-ceo-dara-khosrowshahi-moth...
  - walthamstow 3y ago
    A lot of centimillionaires and billionaires tell a story like this, people usually take them with a pinch of salt. I see it was her first ever media appearance. A lot of expensive PR went into those quotes you're repeating.

bee_rider 3y ago

Merge Intel and Nvidia, put Huang in charge of both, to cause family drama and get us some good chips.

riffic 3y ago

"it's a big club and you ain't in it" https://www.azquotes.com/quote/543644 https://www.azquotes.com/quote/543644

ChrisArchitect 3y ago

Discussed just two months ago under the profile piece on her: Lisa Su saved AMD – Now she wants Nvidia's AI crown https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36164887 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36164887

saaspirant 3y ago

Related: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Friedman_doctrine https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Friedman_doctrine Context: https://old.reddit.com/r/videos/comments/jbqm8x/its_a_big_club_and_you_aint_in_it_george_carlin/g8x14pm/ https://old.reddit.com/r/videos/comments/jbqm8x/its_a_big_cl...

bragr 3y ago

Kind of a tangent, but I worked for a Chinese company for a couple years as the only westerner mostly. My coworkers and I had so much confusion talking about family until the mutual realization that we were not using words the same way and understood some concepts differently. That lead to a lot of sitting around and pointing at a family tree going "ok who would this person be to you, how important?", and sometimes really surprising each other. Long way of saying, she may call him uncle, but he's not her uncle in the western European/Anglo-american sense.

whimsicalism 3y ago
Is it western European or anglo? My Portuguese family will call me uncle sometimes but perhaps that is just because first cousin or whatever is too difficult of a concept
- bragr 3y ago
  There's some variation of course, but the family dynamics in western Europe all seem pretty similar to me, at least compare to the chinese clan system or other systems around the world. You can probably blame the Catholic church for that ;)

lost_tourist 3y ago

While nepotism/name recognition will give you a leg up, it will not keep you in the driver's set. Lisa has done a great job at AMD and good chance the company might be dead by now without her.

dang 3y ago

"Please use the original title, unless it is misleading or linkbait; don't editorialize." If you want to say what you think is important about an article, that's fine, but do it by adding a comment to the thread. Then your view will be on a level playing field with everyone else's: https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=false&sort=byDate&type=comment&query=%22level%20playing%20field%22%20by:dang https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=false&so... An alternative is to find a different article that's more focused on the point you think is important. For example the link that FirmwareBurner found (https://www.tomshardware.com/news/jensen-huang-and-lisa-su-family-tree-shows-how-closely-they-are-related https://www.tomshardware.com/news/jensen-huang-and-lisa-su-f..., via https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36956184 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36956184) would have been a better submission in this case.