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Thanks for the link. I saw the youtube video advertised to me by the algorithm, but wasn't about to waste my time watching it. After decades of trying to get
by Verdex 3y ago
Thanks for the link. I saw the youtube video advertised to me by the algorithm, but wasn't about to waste my time watching it.
After decades of trying to get C-style systems programming right, we're still finding unsafe memory related security issues (ignoring implicit integer casts and UB).
Thesis: Maybe c-style systems programming is bad.
Rust consumes what we learned from cyclone et al as well as leveraging llvm and while I think we had reason to be cautiously optimistic for a while there, now it honestly seems to be working. But it works because we abandoned what we thought were the bad parts of c-style systems programming.
Meanwhile, someone tries to shove c-style programming back into rust and finds it's not actually possible. Then complains. Technically, this is fine.
The part that isn't fine is to loudly proclaim that everyone who is able to learn how to use rust correctly must be lairs.
[As an aside, there's D, P, jai, rust, odin, zig, carbon, vale, swift, c++11+, and more. A good rule of thumb is that a programming language takes about a decade to really get moving. There's a reason that an absurd amount of time has been dumped into replacing c-style systems programming.]
- c_crank 3y agoBug free code only exists when it can be formally verified.
- Verdex 3y ago| Bug free code only exists when it can be formally verified. ... okay. Although, on the other hand: | Beware of bugs in the above code; I have only proved it correct, not tried it - Knuth Perhaps bug free code does not exist?
- c_crank 3y agoThe replacement languages for C in systems programming aren't memory safe. They can cause segfaults. They have additional tools and syntax rules to make it less likely, but they can and will have memory bugs.
- Verdex 3y agoOkay, great. My point was that a lot of people have put a lot of time into not using c. Maybe they have a reason for doing this. The reddit post is upset at having to use rust. Which is fine. It's not fine to also include a claim that everyone who uses rust lies. This is implicitly trying to keep everyone in c. Or the author trying to do the very thing that they are complaining about being done to them. Not great.
- fluoridation 3y agoA language that segfaults may still be memory-safe, if that's how it behaves every time the code is about to do something illegal with memory. You can still build a robust system on top of that, because you know for certain that you'll never read or write out of bounds.