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At the end of their reddit post they say "Rust feels like a MAJOR step back from Java." which I think sums up the issue: 1. Rust is supposed to be harder than

At the end of their reddit post they say "Rust feels like a MAJOR step back from Java." which I think sums up the issue: 1. Rust is supposed to be harder than Java, you get runtime performance for your efforts. If you don't need that performance, by all means do not use Rust! 2. Rust is not as mature of an ecosystem as Java yet, and so there are going to be pain points compared to stuff that has been around forever. 3. Rust is also new to the poster, while using a new language is fun on toy projects, having to use a new language in production is always frustrating, even when you aren't moving to one that is fundamentally harder So, yeah I like Rust, but don't really disagree with their views here. Hopefully work is choosing to use Rust for a reason!

goku12 3y ago
> 1. Rust is supposed to be harder than Java, you get runtime performance for your efforts. If you don't need that performance, by all means do not use Rust! I have to disagree with this. It's easy to use Rust as a general purpose programming language once you are familiar with its type system. Getting there of course, is a different matter. There is a point beyond which the strict rules of the language stops feeling like a burden and starts feeling like a guide. > So even though I like Rust, I don't really disagree with their feelings. I can sympathize with the beginners. Navigating the Rust type system as a beginner takes a lot of patience and contemplation. Doing it under deadlines imposed by management is completely counterproductive. If I were a manager, I would either hire someone who knows it already, or invest in their training. That said, it's a very toxic behavior to take out that frustration on a community that created and loves the language. Express the frustration and seek help? That's fine. But calling them liars and cursing their project a swift death? I don't see how that's agreeable. This really isn't about Rust - it's about not being completely inconsiderate with strangers on the internet. People need a detox from the pressures of corporate life.
- jackmott42 3y ago
  1. "easy to use once you figure out this hard thing" is another way of saying hard. 2. Some people look at those rants as toxic, and I understand that, but there is also value in expressing and seeing people's true feelings. Rust does this to people! Can we fix it?
  - goku12 3y ago
    > "easy to use once you figure out this hard thing" is another way of saying hard. You are conflating difficulty in learning with difficulty to use. Not the same. Rust borrow checker complains for a reason. Once you understand what that reason is (i.e after learning the hard part), Rust becomes just another tool assisting you in writing memory-safe programs. > Some people look at those rants as toxic, and I understand that, but there is also value in expressing and seeing people's true feelings. Would it be so hard to express the problems without personally attacking everyone else out there? You can expect to be socially isolated if you do this in the real world. Despite that, people behave as if it is acceptable if it's online.
    - jackmott42 3y ago
      I didn't see the OP personally attack "everyone else out there"

goku12 3y ago

> 1. Rust is supposed to be harder than Java, you get runtime performance for your efforts. If you don't need that performance, by all means do not use Rust! I have to disagree with this. It's easy to use Rust as a general purpose programming language once you are familiar with its type system. Getting there of course, is a different matter. There is a point beyond which the strict rules of the language stops feeling like a burden and starts feeling like a guide. > So even though I like Rust, I don't really disagree with their feelings. I can sympathize with the beginners. Navigating the Rust type system as a beginner takes a lot of patience and contemplation. Doing it under deadlines imposed by management is completely counterproductive. If I were a manager, I would either hire someone who knows it already, or invest in their training. That said, it's a very toxic behavior to take out that frustration on a community that created and loves the language. Express the frustration and seek help? That's fine. But calling them liars and cursing their project a swift death? I don't see how that's agreeable. This really isn't about Rust - it's about not being completely inconsiderate with strangers on the internet. People need a detox from the pressures of corporate life.

jackmott42 3y ago
1. "easy to use once you figure out this hard thing" is another way of saying hard. 2. Some people look at those rants as toxic, and I understand that, but there is also value in expressing and seeing people's true feelings. Rust does this to people! Can we fix it?
- goku12 3y ago
  > "easy to use once you figure out this hard thing" is another way of saying hard. You are conflating difficulty in learning with difficulty to use. Not the same. Rust borrow checker complains for a reason. Once you understand what that reason is (i.e after learning the hard part), Rust becomes just another tool assisting you in writing memory-safe programs. > Some people look at those rants as toxic, and I understand that, but there is also value in expressing and seeing people's true feelings. Would it be so hard to express the problems without personally attacking everyone else out there? You can expect to be socially isolated if you do this in the real world. Despite that, people behave as if it is acceptable if it's online.
  - jackmott42 3y ago
    I didn't see the OP personally attack "everyone else out there"