4 ms·

The tool looks great; I have a hurdle to overcome with the name. I'm long accustomed to spelling it, in English, as Jujitsu. I've also seen Jiu-jitsu. "jutsu"

by psd1 3y ago

The tool looks great; I have a hurdle to overcome with the name. I'm long accustomed to spelling it, in English, as Jujitsu. I've also seen Jiu-jitsu. "jutsu" is much less common, IME. Is there such thing as canonical Romanisation of Nipponese? I can deal with a project being "wrong" better than not knowing which of us is wrong.

brendev 3y ago
I think your question is getting into the field of martial arts lineage. People might have their own narratives/ mythologies around this, but here's the most neutral way I can explain it: As techniques and styles evolve over the years, people come up with new names to describe those styles. Name similarities will often imply closer ties in lineage. As a Brazilian Jiu Jitsu practitioner, I cringe when I see it spelled any other way, but also I have to recognize that I only feel that way because I have more exposure to that specific martial art/spelling.
- toastal 3y ago
  The spelling ‘mistake’ makes it easier to web search.
scq 3y ago
There are multiple romanisation systems for Japanese, but the most common one is Hepburn. In Japan, Kunrei-shiki is sometimes used (especially by the government), which is designed with Japanese speakers in mind (vs Hepburn which was designed with English speakers in mind). It's jujutsu in both, but there are varying ways of representing the long vowel on the first "u" -- either omitting it (jujutsu), using a macron or circumflex (jūjutsu), or repeating the vowel (juujutsu). Ju-jitsu and jiu-jitsu are not correct in any romanisation system that I know of, I'm not really sure how they came about. Probably historical accident.
- OJFord 3y ago
  So is it pronounced like it looks here? I've never seen this spelling before, and IME (and I assume GP's) everyone says 'jew-jit-sue'. But it's more like 'jew-jut-sue' (as in to jut out)?
  - freeopinion 3y ago
    To use your phonetic spelling juujutsu would be more like jew-jew-tsue, with the first jew being stretched out a little. That is, both ju syllables would be pronounced the same way. The tsu on the end is its own syllable. Unless we're talking about the English word, which I'm not sure how to pronounce. If we're talking about the American word then it's really just like a lot of other murkin words: butcher it any way you like.
- glandium 3y ago
  The base assumption, though, is that we're talking about 柔術 (with a long u), not 呪術 (without a long u). Without a clarification from the author, it's hard to tell which one it's supposed to be.
  - pilaf 3y ago
    Just to add clarification: 柔術 is the martial art, while 呪術 means sorcery. The first kanji in 呪術 means curse, so while "sorcery" could be a cool name for a software project in English, a Japanese speaker would probably have apprehensions about using 呪術.
redwall_hp 3y ago
I cringe whenever I see it spelt with an "i." It would "jujutsu" or similar in either of the typical romanization schemes (Hepburn, etc). "Ji" would be pronounced "jee" in any of the standard romanizations. Pronunciation is more like joo-juh-tsu. "Tsu" is its own syllable.

by psd1 3y ago

brendev 3y ago

I think your question is getting into the field of martial arts lineage. People might have their own narratives/ mythologies around this, but here's the most neutral way I can explain it: As techniques and styles evolve over the years, people come up with new names to describe those styles. Name similarities will often imply closer ties in lineage. As a Brazilian Jiu Jitsu practitioner, I cringe when I see it spelled any other way, but also I have to recognize that I only feel that way because I have more exposure to that specific martial art/spelling.

toastal 3y ago
The spelling ‘mistake’ makes it easier to web search.

scq 3y ago

There are multiple romanisation systems for Japanese, but the most common one is Hepburn. In Japan, Kunrei-shiki is sometimes used (especially by the government), which is designed with Japanese speakers in mind (vs Hepburn which was designed with English speakers in mind). It's jujutsu in both, but there are varying ways of representing the long vowel on the first "u" -- either omitting it (jujutsu), using a macron or circumflex (jūjutsu), or repeating the vowel (juujutsu). Ju-jitsu and jiu-jitsu are not correct in any romanisation system that I know of, I'm not really sure how they came about. Probably historical accident.

OJFord 3y ago
So is it pronounced like it looks here? I've never seen this spelling before, and IME (and I assume GP's) everyone says 'jew-jit-sue'. But it's more like 'jew-jut-sue' (as in to jut out)?
- freeopinion 3y ago
  To use your phonetic spelling juujutsu would be more like jew-jew-tsue, with the first jew being stretched out a little. That is, both ju syllables would be pronounced the same way. The tsu on the end is its own syllable. Unless we're talking about the English word, which I'm not sure how to pronounce. If we're talking about the American word then it's really just like a lot of other murkin words: butcher it any way you like.
glandium 3y ago
The base assumption, though, is that we're talking about 柔術 (with a long u), not 呪術 (without a long u). Without a clarification from the author, it's hard to tell which one it's supposed to be.
- pilaf 3y ago
  Just to add clarification: 柔術 is the martial art, while 呪術 means sorcery. The first kanji in 呪術 means curse, so while "sorcery" could be a cool name for a software project in English, a Japanese speaker would probably have apprehensions about using 呪術.

redwall_hp 3y ago

I cringe whenever I see it spelt with an "i." It would "jujutsu" or similar in either of the typical romanization schemes (Hepburn, etc). "Ji" would be pronounced "jee" in any of the standard romanizations. Pronunciation is more like joo-juh-tsu. "Tsu" is its own syllable.