10 ms·
Superconductors allow creation of non-chemical energy storage whose capacity is only limited by storage's mechanical resistance from being crushed by its own ma
by TheLoafOfBread 3y ago
Superconductors allow creation of non-chemical energy storage whose capacity is only limited by storage's mechanical resistance from being crushed by its own magnetic field and which has nothing like "finite charge-discharge cycle life limit"
Additionally it has no internal resistance, so you can charge such battery virtually immediately, but you can also discharge it immediately. This will be important for energy based weapons.
- op00to 3y agoWill batteries still explode like LiPo batteries?
- galangalalgol 3y agoWell there wouldn't be fires that produce toxic fumes and burn even under water, but if the coil fractured in an accident all that energy would be released in a tiny fraction of a second instead of a combustion event that takes time. That seems bad...
- yetihehe 3y ago> all that energy would be released in a tiny fraction of a second Probably along with a large electromagnetic pulse...
- ben_w 3y agoNecessarily with a large EMP, as the energy is stored in the magnetic field. Fortunately the energy density[0] is comparable with rubber bands[1] and supercapacitors[1], so while the EMP is large, it's not terrifyingly large. [0] at least according to wikipedia, 4-40 kJ/kg: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Superconducting_magnetic_energy_storage https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Superconducting_magnetic_energ... [1] 1.6-6.6 kJ/kg and 10-30 kJ/kg respectively: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Energy_density https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Energy_density
- galangalalgol 3y agoThe energy density isn't the scary bit, the power density is. The referenced paper in that Wikipedia article indicates ~10^5 higher power density than li-ion. So while it stores 10x less energy than li-ion it dumps it so much faster. The difference between a combustion and a detonation if you will. I'm guessing the vicinity of the thing would get turned to plasma.
- ben_w 3y agoA very small and localised plasma near the normal conductors that suddenly experience a rapidly decaying magnetic field; but the total energy is still (relatively) low compared to, say, the thermal heat capacity of the air of about 1.3 kJ/K/m^3.
- almostnormal 3y agoThat energy density number likely includes the cooling system.
- galangalalgol 3y agoThat is what I thought too, but reading the paper referenced it seemed like they only included the coils, not even the support structure to keep them from collapsing. But it wasn't that clear. Edit: they were clear that the limiting factor on energy and power density was the forces exerted on the coils.
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- amluto 3y agoNo, they’ll explode unlike LiPo batteries. LiPo batteries merely catch fire. An electromagnet, superconducting or otherwise, has large internal forces. If the support structure lets go, it will move. And, if part of the circuit becomes non-conducting, an inductive kickback will occur, generating enough voltage to (initially) sustain the original current. You could cut a Li-ion battery in half, and the two halves will continue to store their chemical energy, at least until they burn up. If you cut an inductor in half (which is what this type of energy storage device is), that energy will dissipate very quickly whether you like it or not.
- mmis1000 3y agoA battery that transform all energy it stored into heat sounds more like a bomb instead. Imagine someone accidentally heat up the 'super-conductive' battery to the point that it is no longer super-conductive.
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- jacquesm 3y agoThat goes for any sufficiently dense energy storage system, including most batteries. Imagine someone accidentally shorted out a car battery with something that can withstand a few thousand amps. (Come to think of it, a room temperature superconductor would do nicely for that purpose...).
- sudosysgen 3y agoI did something similar once with a high power lowish voltage battery array - my soldering iron's shroud literally vaporized with a deafening bang before even triggering the fuse.
- jacquesm 3y agoRi of those is typically 1 Ohm or thereabouts, which at 500 A develops 500W in the battery itself and a large multiple of that in your 'load' (in this case your soldering iron :) ). When working with large battery arrays I use tools that are taped in all the way except for the business end, just in case. All you need to do is drop a wrench in the wrong spot and it's party time.
- Timon3 3y agoA colleague recently showed me the coil of a broken superconducting magnet after it quenched. There was an easily visible rip in the structure, even though the whole thing was enclosed. It must have at least had enough kinetic energy to tear the metal apart.
- jacquesm 3y agoI've had a relatively small (about 2" x 2" x 1") ceramic magnet explode on me. The shrapnel was embedded deep into the adjacent wall.
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- ajago 3y agoCan you elaborate on this please? How can superconductors be used for storage?
- adrian_b 3y agohttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Superconducting_magnetic_energy_storage https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Superconducting_magnetic_energ... For now, this is restricted to special applications due to great size and cost. The great size and cost are caused mainly by the cooling systems.
- formerly_proven 3y agoThe magnetic field of a superconducting electromagnet contains a lot of energy because the field can be very strong with a large cross section. It’s the conjugate of a capacitor after all, it’s just that the energy density of normal inductors is much lower than that of capacitors. Using a superconductor also avoids resistive losses for (dis)charging. (Inductors are very frequently used for very short-term energy storage (~fractions of a millisecond). For example, all energy output by a flyback converter was briefly stored in the transformer’s magnetic field. Unlike a regular transformer/forward converter, where the magnetic field is just a side effect of coupled inductors, so none of the energy is stored in it.)
- Sharlin 3y agoBut obviously you can't exactly carry multi-Tesla electromagnets around. So no car batteries, much less phone batteries. Large energy storage facilities for grid power regulation, possibly.
- galangalalgol 3y agoCould you shield them with mumetal? Maybe make tiny arrays of thousands of them each with smaller atorage surrounded by mumetal to let them be close. That way if they break it is only those along the break that would discharge instantly.
- choeger 3y agoThat's a physics-based assumption, not an engineering-based one. Unlike the effect on nuclear fusion, the idea of using SC as storage devices is pretty much pure theory. Edit: it's currently leaving the theory part at MW scales as pointed out below. That makes using LK-99 much more likely. But using LK-99 in a SC storage device is still theoretical.
- TheLoafOfBread 3y agoIt is actually used and it exists. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Superconducting_magnetic_energy_storage https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Superconducting_magnetic_energ... See applications
- choeger 3y agoThat's neat, but it misses the point. LK-99 is not even available for engineering, yet. You might be able to use one of the existing designs. Maybe you need to come up with a new design. But you cannot do that just yet.
- jacquesm 3y ago> But using LK-99 in a SC storage device is still theoretical. Of course it is, any kind of use of this stuff is still theoretical. That's a content free statement. But GP was making the assumption that if it works it can be used for storage. But that doesn't really follow from the properties of the material as described so far. You'd need a lot more current carrying capacity for that to become a realistic possibility.
- cbolton 3y agoThe storage capacity is also limited by the superconductor's critical current. I imagine everything is fine until you add that extra bit of current that causes the material to switch out of superconductivity and all the concentrated energy has to find an escape real quick...
- chaorace 3y agoSounds like an energy weapon to me!
- gattr 3y agoThis (unplanned loss of superconductivity) sometimes happens to accelerator magnets in LHC. To prevent stuff from melting/blowing up, there's an elaborate protection system integrated ([1]). [1] LHC Magnet Quench Protection System https://cds.cern.ch/record/259538/files/P00021565.pdf https://cds.cern.ch/record/259538/files/P00021565.pdf